Can LBJ bolts be secured by a nut? Knuckle threads stripped

Oh great it's Dustbox again asking stupid questions.

Replaced my upper and lower BJ's (OEM don't worry) today, everything went smoothly til I was putting in the 4 bolts that hold the LBJ to the spindle. Realized that the inside two are stripped because some smoothbrained previous owner or shop ran bolts visibly too large and completely stripped out the threads on the knuckle/ spindle whatever you wanna call it. Those bolts don't even fit through my new LBJ so I couldn't just jam those in there.

Soo I went to Ace and bought the same size bolts as stock but slightly longer, and then threaded a nut on top. I will add pictures.

Thoughts? Is that secure, and for how long? It seems solid but the nut rattling loose is a concern even with a lot of loctite. How could I ensure against that?

Obviously I don't wanna run that forever. New spindle? or is an insert and then re threading it with tap and die an option?

I need your guys amazing opinions as I am planning on driving a few hundred miles in the next few days.

Note: they do easily clear the CV, clearances aren't a problem.

 

I mean, maybe?

Here's how I'm thinking about this- the nut is doing the same thing that the threads in the spindle normally are. However I am not familiar with how much thread engagement there is on the spindle vs. the nut. Plus there is the chance of the nut backing off of the bolt. If you can get a grade 8 bolt and nut, loctite, then my initial thought is that it would be fine. I can think of numerous cars off the top of my head that have a ball joint that attaches with nuts and bolts. If you know the bolt size/pitch we could find the strength of that bolt.

That said- we know what happens when LBJs fail. People have gotten into serious accidents due to LBJ failure. You mentioned you were planning on doing a few hundred miles soon. It wouldn’t be smart to drive that far with bolts like that. Do I think it would be fine around town until you get a new spindle? Yeah, probably. But hundreds of miles, no.

When I’m deciding something like this on my own cars, I ask myself: “would a professional mechanic get sued if he did this to a customers car?” And if the answer is yes, then I don’t do it.

 

That is my thinking for the most part. They are the grade 10.9 which the Ace guy said was equivalent to the automotive grade 8. If I remember correctly they are coarse thread M10.

Just recently bought the truck and the PO has pretty much brand new control arms put on it by a shop not too far from where I live, meaning they had to know about the bolt weirdness and it is potentially their fault. Worth it to give them a call? Do shops ever do anything about stuff like that?
Edit: Just realized that they wouldn't necessarily have to deal with those bolts at all

An Idea I had was, if the spindle has to be replaced moderately soon anyway, then I could just weld the bolt to nut, or even the spindle to the ball joint. That would definitely not be going anywhere anytime soon, and then when I need to get in there next I just pull the whole thing out should be no problem.

 

IIRC the lower surfaces of the spindle are not parallel and the nut is sitting at an angle. I would replace the spindles. Clearly, the shop that did the work has no clue about FGTs.

 

I personally wouldn't drive that. Options aren't great here. Replacing knuckle sucks b/c you just presed in new UBJ. Drilling out the 4 holes in the LBJ to take a fatter shanked bolt would suck. That's a high-stress area so I'd want to avoid drilling, tapping, or thread repair.

Replacing the knuckle is safest but sanity check here: Are you 100% positive you're reading the situation right? Is it possible you ordered the wrong bolts?

 

I got the part numbers from you guys, and I’m running them on the other side they thread perfectly. Part number is 9008010066

Thoughts on welding it all together? Sounds redneck af but then I ain’t gonna lose no bolts.

Also what’s an FGT?

 

looks pretty scary to me since these are a high stress location. glad your at least running grade 8. it might work for a while, but id replace soon, and it would always be in the back of my mind that a "fix" is in place. you say they clear cv...is that in both full flex up and down too ?

 

I'm not a welder- can you weld between two different cast parts? I mean, I know you can, but can you actually get good weld penetration? You'd also be in for a nightmare the next time that LBJ needs to be removed.

FGT= First Gen Tundra

 

Welding can potentially weaken the grade of the bolt.

I have no words for this.

 

I’m not sure, I’m not a welder either but my father in law is pretty solid at it. Even just welding the bolt to the nut so it doesn’t back itself off?

Definitely would not be driving hard on it.
They’ve got a good amount of space and the whole thing moves as an assembly so I’m not too concerned about that.

 

Mmm that makes sense. What would you suggest?

Hahaha acronyms kill me it took me an hour one time to realize LT meant long travel. I was only familiar with 1GT

 

I’d be looking at the price of rust-free or minimal rust used spindles to see if it makes sense. Also, it gives you the opportunity to replace the wheel bearings with new ones so you’ll be worry free for at least the next 200k miles. For now I’d temporarily go with the bolts and loctited nut until you have everything in place to replace, but that’s me.

 

I really don’t like the fact that bolt looks like it bent as you tightened it

 

I wouldn't drive on that.

I would be hitting up www.car-part.com and finding a donor 2000 year 4WD spindle ("knuckle", if you prefer) to swap in. I know you probably don't want to do the work, but this is the best, safest fix.

I think it's possible and/or probable that someone replaced the knuckle already with a later model truck, which used a larger-thread bolt. I can't recall what the breakdown was, I think 2000 all same, 2001-02 all same, 03-04 all same, 05-06 all same.

You must understand, if any of those four fasteners don't hold, the others will follow in short order - and one will not hold, it's already tweaking - the end result is going to cost you a fuckload of money and take the truck out of commission. The damage will be bad enough you'll probably be overhauling brake lines, ABS sensor if applicable (which is $$$), tie rods, potentially the steering rack and lots of other shit.

LBJ is not to be trifled with. This is not the part you want to FAFO (fuck around, find out) with. The only temporary fix I'd accept would be opening the LBJ bolt holes up a hair, then tapping, then using a new grade 8 bolt, but even then I'd do it temporarily.

 

I’d nut and bolt if it were needed for emergency use or to get to work for the week until I could source a new or JY spindle. Trouble with the nut and bolt is that it’s not securing the bolt into the knuckle, it’s passing the bolt through and holding it on the other side. The stress the bolt sees changes and sheer strength of the bolt becomes more important. I’ll put this solution at a 6/10 on the sketch scale.

 

I missed your comment about the nut rattling loose even with loctite applied.

As other have stated, I wouldn’t be driving it that much myself if at all. Restrict it to the back roads at lower speeds.

Sounds like the threads got mangled along with the bolt bending after torquing it down. Maybe a compression washer would help to minimize that but it’s only a guess.

 

I think @Shifty hit the nail on the head.

IIRC Toyota upgraded the ball and socket on the 03. On the 04+, it kept the 03 upgrades, but also the upgraded the mount for a wider area and gave it larger mount bolts (not sure of the bolt size, but the head increased from 14mm to 17mm).

Also be advised on ABS vehicles the spindles have holes for sensors that have to be plugged if you don’t have ABS.

Perhaps you have different year spindles and LBJs on your truck.

@shifty` - My 2000 has 14mm heads on the LBJs. What size are the bolts on your 2006?

 

Looks like the moog lower control arm is $90. Consider an aftermarket replacement and watch for some factory arms in the yards local to you. It’s probably fine long term. Biggest concern I’d have is the bushings…those cams can corrode and be difficult to remove, require replacement….just be ready.

 

Appreciate your input- but the 1st gen ball joint/lower control arm design is different than the 2nd gens. The ball joint is not built in to the control arm like it is on 2nd gens. It is entirely separate from the arm and separate from the spindle as well. The issue here is with the threads in the spindle, nothing to do with the control arm. Definitely not fine long term.

 

$90 is the price for a 2000 Tundra 4.7L v8 lower control arm. https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/toyota,2000,tundra,4.7l+v8,1357938,suspension,control+arm,10401

 

Op doesn’t need a lower control arm just like @FiatRunner post you just quoted says……

 

I understand. Why would the control arm need to be replaced?

 

Looks like I’m misunderstanding the situation, sorry folks. I’ll need to get an FGT and educate myself.

 

You're all good. Let us know when you get that FGT!

 

This.

I'd grind flat spots so the bolts dont bend. Replace the bolts, use nylock nuts and send it. It's plenty strong that way IMO.

 

I will need to crawl under the truck to see what size my 2006 LBJ bolts are. Will check it out in the AM.

 

Good idea, I'll start working on that.

Depending on how that goes I might still get a new spindle. Consensus on this? OEM or is there an aftermarket one that isn't too expensive but still an upgrade? Fr33lance fab seems very cool, but it's 04-06. Would the only compatibility issue be the ball joint bolts? If that's a good option then I'd shell out for new BJ and run that.

I'm quite certain that it isn't a newer spindle. The outer 2 bolts are the same as the other side and fit perfect with my bolts. If it were meant to run bigger bolts then it wouldn't be completely stripped of thread and mangled at the top because the bolts pushed it's way through.

 

Also @shifty I remember you saying this truck wasn't ABS, how can I double check that?

 

You’d see a block (abs module) on top of the passenger side fender with a bunch of brake lines going into and out of it. If it’s not there like mine, you’ll just see the mounting holes.

 

You can use an ABS spindle (knuckle) on a non-ABS truck. You just have to plug the ABS port with something. There are a few different options, you can weld it shut, you can use RTV to seal it up, or you can buy ABS sensors and plug the hole with them. The first two options cost less. The RTV option is quick, easy, and cheap.