Question for owners whose engines have failed

I have a question for anyone that may have already had an engine failure.

From what I’ve read in posts from these owners, the repair times have been very long. In NC, the Lemon Law provisions include 20 business days out of service in any 12 month period during the first 24 months or 24k miles of ownership due to a warrantable failure. Each state’s lemon law is different, but I think most use that same bar. That clock starts the day it’s taken in to the service dept. Is there a reason you didn’t pursue a buyback when it took over 4 weeks from failure to return? Is it because you didn’t think to use the buyback option, you still wanted the truck back regardless, something else?

 

I went through the process, which really wasn’t bad, but it happened in December ‘22 and the price of the ‘23 models had jumped $4k-$5k for the same trim package and equipment. Coupled with interest rates that we’re at 9% compared to the 2.49% that I got in April 2022 along with dealers still charging MSRP with no discounts, I just couldn’t make the math work in my favor. I opted instead for a 7yr/100k bumper to bumper warranty thinking that I’d trade it when interest dropped and inventory increased. We’re finally at that moment, but….RECALL. Doesn’t look like my time with Toyota will work out favorably but we shall see.

 

Anyone else want to chime in? Mainly what I’m curious to hear is if anyone chose to pursue a lemon buyback when their truck was in the shop for over a month getting a small block replacement.

 

Funny how when you restrict it to responses from people with actual engine failures, you don’t get 200+ pages of wild speculation.

There is a list of forum members with engine failures in the first post of the engine failures non-discussion thread (which is a sticky at the top of the 3rd gen forum). You might get more responses if you tag those members.

 

Yeah, funny how that is. Which is fine, as I don’t want the fanboy or doomsday posts. We have enough threads going for that.
And thanks for the tip. I’ll do that.

 

They’ll buy it back, I was approved but couldn’t take the hit on mileage, price increase and interest rates. The process is a piece of cake, the decision is the hard part.

 

Were they prorating based on the mileage?

 

You might check out this guy’s 2-part series, if you haven’t seen it. First video is him detailing the engine replacement “saga” and his second video, linked below, details his lemon buyback experience.

He describes the depreciation hit he took due to mileage. To summarize, you basically start at your purchase price and they ding you for everything they can: mileage, damage, dents/dings/scratches, etc. Seems like, as others have said, the process itself isn’t hard. The hard part is deciding if it makes fiscal sense for your specific situation or not.

https://youtu.be/rH4-3-6uxrk?si=3fGcVZ7S0QETXwTz

 

Not too much different than my experience with Jeep with two buybacks, although they didn’t prorate mine. Got 100% purchase price including fees and taxes. Plue they paid me for the accessories I had added.

So for the video guy and @reded301, Toyota is not fighting a buyback when it takes an excessive amount of time to repair. That’s the info I was hoping to hear. Cause as long as it takes to do a short block replacement, it’s only going to get a lot worse when they’re potentially getting 102k trucks coming in (if that’s what the end up doing…we definitely speculating). All the more reason why it would make more sense to just do a crate engine swap. Less time to repair, doesn’t hit the lemon out of service criteria for a buyback, less risk of bad repairs by an under qualified and overworked shop tech, happier customers. Probably much better PR for them as well.

 

The rep that I worked with asked for receipts for all mods that I had done and informed me that the buyback offer would include the original purchase price, plus all taxes and registration fees that I had incurred but there would be a deduction for mileage. I keep my vehicles in perfect condition so I had no concerns about dents or scratches. I would have accepted the offer if it had happened today even without the recall, unfortunately it happened during the worst possible point from a buyers perspective in the past 5yrs.

 

Here is a recent comment from that video ... "Sir is there a way you can send me info on that lawyer , my tundra’s engine blew up yesterday. Service department told me Toyota is stopping all work on repairs ."

Perhaps a Toyota Plan of Action is imminent?

 

Lemon Laws do vary by state. I was beyond the mileage in Alabama when the engine failed.
The Alabama Lemon Law allows them 30 days not the 20 in NC and is a higher bar to cross.
In Alabama, your car may qualify as a lemon if:

• It has been 24 months or less since date of delivery
• Has 24,000 miles or less.
• It has had 3 attempts or more to repair the issue by the manufacturer, a manufacturer's agent or an authorized dealer for the same defect.
• It has been out of service for at least 30 days and in the possession of the manufacturer, a manufacturer's agent, or an authorized dealer.

 

Maybe they’re going to stop repairing and start shipping out crate engines? That would maybe align with the news last week that they hired 350 at the engine building plant. Speculation I know. But it sure would make a lot of sense.

 

Perhaps ... Toyota has to release some more official information real soon to satisfy customers affected, or maybe they dont. I'm sure they're under extreme pressure as this is an EF5 shitstorm for the company.

 

Agreed. While this is probably one of their least selling vehicles, it's also one of the most expensive, not including Lexus. And it wouldn’t surprise me if some prospective Tacoma buyers are paying close attention.

 

Anyone who pays attention to the pickup market has eyes on this. Toyota runs a heavy risk of losing their reputation and millions of future consumers if they bungle this deal.

 

Were they asking about the mods because they were looking for excuses or because they would cover the Mods? what was the difference between what you paid and what they offered and how bad was the mileage deduction?

 

Back few years I had a Volvo lemon but the buyback was an absolute nightmare. Them too were trying to pro-rate me, ding me on everything they could. Not till I got a lawyer they actually started to listen and I got 100% all my money back. The lawyer was someone that I always have on an annual retainer and it didn't cost me anything to have him write a nasty letter to Volvo HQ. That's all it took, have some legal representation and I guarantee you, they will not fight you.

Wish you luck lads, I know it sucks but it is what it is, all 3rd gen jokes and dislikes aside.

 

The mods were considered in the buyback price. I never got an actual number for the buyback and don’t remember how much they were going to depreciate but if memory serves correctly, I was going to take a hit of about $4k between mileage and mods. Between depreciation and the higher price of the 2023 models, it would have cost me $8k to end up with the exact same truck at 9% interest vs. 2.4%.

 

Hello Neighbor. Are you asking because you've had issues or so that you're prepared for a potential failure?

Would I be accurate to state that the failure problems are early gen issues and that Toyota has modified the more recent engines to address this failure issue???

Paul

 

I have not had problems yet. But I think based in the info posted from people who know way more about ICEs certainly makes me think the issue is not as simple as debris, that damage may be occurring before all out failure, and that a recall expansion is a real possibility. The Toyota report filed with the NHTSA says it’s only engines build through 2/23, but there are plenty of owners with newer builds who have had engine failures, even some 2024s. Plus a few who had short block replacements only to have a second failure.

I also don’t like the idea of having dealer techs doing a full teardown for a short block replacement. Plus others who have had it done are reporting repairs taking well over a month. A crate engine replacement is one thing. But I wouldn’t accept a complete teardown of an engine with less that 10k miles that takes over a month, so I was looking for info from others who felt the same and pushed for a buyback and their experiences dealing with Toyota.

 

Here is the source for recall details: https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2023/TOYOTA/TUNDRA/PU%252FEC/4WD#recalls
Scroll to associated documents for considerable detail, including dates.

 

Thank you! That is a great resource.

 

No failure here (2024) but been doing my homework with CT's lemon law. Looks like the tricky thing for buyback/ lemon is hitting that 24,000 mile window. With many occuring at 30K+ it would be well outside the window. I would need to see what kind of hit and math on a buyback/ lemon law situation would unfold. Also, what Toyota would do for warrnty work. Full fresh long block- OK I would go for that.

Here is CT's criteria - so it gets a little tricky with all of the ORs to qualify. Has to be within 2 years or 24,000mi, then...

You must have a reasonable number of repair attempts before being able to use
the Connecticut Lemon Law Arbitration Program. Please note that repair attempts
must be within the eligibility period.

A “reasonable number” can mean any of the following:The law presumes that a “reasonable number” is four (4). However, you may have
a claim with fewer repair attempts. In that case, be prepared to make an argument
regarding why you believe that number of repair attempts is reasonable.
For example, a defect that causes injury may be eligible.

OR

When the vehicle has been out of service for repair at the dealership for a
cumulative total of thirty (30) days or more for any number of unrelated problems.

OR

In the case there is a safety defect likely to cause death or serious injury if the
vehicle is driven, and the defect continues to exist after two (2) or more attempts
during the first year of operation or the term of the express warranty, whichever
period ends first.

 

Y’all trying to lemon law trucks that aren’t broken.

 

Nah just trying not to get railroaded with sleezy dealers, toyota games and knowing what recourse we have for a massive mechanical failure on a rather large "investment".

 

Good to be prepared I guess, but also one of those bridges to burn if you ever get there. Otherwise, go drive and enjoy. Chance of failure is still ridiculously low.

 

I would do the same if I had a 3rd gen. Trying to protect their hard earned money mate.

 

You can't lemon law a truck that isn't broken. That's not how any of this works. A favorable trade perhaps. Or just enjoy it to get your money's worth out of it. @Eurodriver beat the ever loving piss out of his and it wouldn't die. Over 120k miles of hard service. He liked the experience so much he bought anther one.

 

Everybody is different. Can't tell what to do or not to do or how they manifest their needs or emotions. Simple human nature.