California Road Charge - Thoughts?

Saw a reel the other day about this new "Road Charge" that they are piloting in California, so I did a little bit of research on it...
For those unaware, this is a new tax that is supposed to replace the current gas tax. Tax money that they claim is no longer being made due to all the EVs. Also tax money that is supposedly being used to maintain our roads/highways but who knows if every penny actually goes to that.
So the idea is to have us report our mileage on a monthly basis by 1 of 3 methods than pay a monthly fee based on miles driven.

So what are your thoughts? Do you think this means California's ridiculous gas prices would actually go down substantially? I feel that this would just be an added tax and we won't see any relief at the pump regardless if this program actually does go into affect. If it actually does give us a break at the pump than this would really benefit those of us who don't have a long commute to work. All the EV drivers though I'm sure are pissed about this.

Here is an article that I read...
https://abc7.com/post/caltrans-to-t...for-miles-driven-instead-of-gas-tax/14828291/

Also a link to the actual site for this "Road Charge"
https://caroadcharge.com/
There is also a way to make $400(if you're selected) by piloting this for a few months. They pay you in gift cards

Are there any other states that do this? Feel free to chime in if your state does this. Or is this unheard of?

 

Yes, this is being heavily debated up here in the NW as well... Basically, the state is trying to figure out how to not have any 'shortcomings' in their revenue, and in the process of talking about how to approach this, we've (Oregon) already had several recent 'declarations' of failing infrastructure (roadways, bridges, etc.) that are in need of repair and apparently the state doesn't have enough funds to fix them all. So, it's very similar in that they want to add a use tax (mileage based), but we're not getting any indication that pump prices will be going down...

For us, a lot of the concern and debate is that for people that live in rural communities, they generally are making lower wages and traveling further for work and supplies, and will therefore end up paying more in fees than our counterparts who live in large cities, make more and drive shorter distances for work and supplies.

So, for example, making a Costco run for us is about 140 miles RT... It's definitely not a weekly occurrence for us, but even if we only go every month or two and then we are then taxed on those miles on top of fuel expenses... egads

My guess is that carriers will begin to raise delivery fees again to compensate for what they've got to pay to drive the roads to deliver things that are ordered online also... So, for the consumer, I'm thinking this will just end up being a lose/lose on our end.

....and yes, we've had pilot/test programs for this underway now for nearly two decades at this point.

https://www.ncsl.org/transportation...e-toolkit/road-usage-charge-fact-sheet-oregon

 

The big question is will they eliminate the gas tax? My bet is they keep the gas tax and install the mileage tax.

 

And how do they verify those miles driven. If by odometer, will you also be paying for miles driven in other states?

 

Oh wow! I did not even think about that, the rural areas where one would have to drive a long distance just get necessities. Ugh that's horrible.

I highly doubt they will. Like @Tripleconpanna stated, his state didn't show any sign of losing gas tax. Wishful thinking but why I'm the world would they want to make things easier for the working man. Seems like everything is just getting harder and harder with no breaks in sight.

One of the methods they have listed is "Vehicle Telamatics" which I guess is a GPS enabled Device that would report only California miles. Do the other 2 methods would count even out of state miles as California miles. Did you participate in piloting it in your state @Tripleconpanna If so, how were they monitoring miles?

This is from the websites FAQs

• Plug-in Device: A device will be shipped to your home with instructions on how to plug it into your vehicle’s OBD-II port, typically located under the steering wheel. If you choose to use GPS location data, then this option will report any miles driven out of state, on private roads, or on tribal roads. Such miles will not be charged towards your monthly Road Charge. If you do not choose GPS location data, then all miles will be charged as California public roads.
• Vehicle Telematics: This option is available for newer vehicles that have a connected vehicle account through the auto manufacturer. If you don’t currently have an account on your vehicle, you may be able to contact the brand and activate their service. GPS location data may not be available with this option and all miles driven will be charged as California public roads.
• Odometer Entry: Participants who choose this option will upload a photo of the vehicle odometer once a month. All miles driven are charged as California public roads.

 

Wow! Not surprised though. Kali will never eliminate an existing tax, just add more. I myself would never add a tracking device. I chose to not sign on to connected services. No way. A monthly photo. Hell no. Only a few states could pull this off without political consequences. Colorado is still trying to figure out how to fairly charge EV owners without affecting every driver. This could easily be done at registration time by charging an EV road use fee, which is not a tax. CO adds these registration "fees" all the time.

 

Ah more Big Brother - no thanks - don't need to be Tracked - even if its to save money - I don't let my insurance do it (and yes they charge more as a result for my desire for privacy).

On the flip side - tejas Already charges EVs $400 upon purchase (for road tax losses) and a renewal every 2 yrs (i think) to keep that up.

But tejas road are not near are nice and good as Cali roads - ours can have potholes - dips - bumps unlike Cali roads I've been on south to north.

And yes your fuel costs are super high - as soon as I cross from Oregon to northern Cali gas prices jump $1.50 a gal woohoo.

 

Didn't EV charging stations start to charge to charge their EVs? Wonder why they can't just get them there? Ah but those people with home charging wouldn't be taxed. You're right, I think registration is where they can get taxed.

 

LOL the .gov never eliminates a existing tax.

 

Just came back to Cali a few weeks from visiting my brother in Dallas/Fort Worth area and boy do I miss the gas prices from your state. Even Arizona and New Mexico are way better.

It'd be real nice to see our gas prices go down even in the slightest bit.

 

Sadly true!

 

Here in CO our legislature is set up in such a way that they can't "make" a new tax. We vote on any new tax put forward by the legislature. To get around this, for example, the DMV comes up with "fees" and do add up. I'm trying to not enter the political realm which is frowned on here, simply saying how things work here and adding an EV road use "fee" to equal average gas taxes paid by ice users will probably be the best way to approach this problem. Ha!

I must have 15+ fees on my DMV receipt. Heh. I can now opt in to purchase a state park pass at registration time at a discount which is actually kind of kuul. Park Rangers simply scan your plate.

 

How is CO registration look over there? I know someone here in Cali that uses an Arizona address for vehicle registration. I guess registration is much cheaper in AZ. I just paid over $700 for 1 year of registration for my '18. Anybody from AZ? Can you chime in about registration?

 

I have a 22 Frontier and paid $396 here in CO which us based on initial cost and type of vehicle. Some states registration fees are quite reasonable and some are certainly not. High tax states will usually have exorbitant registration fees too. I spent 10 months in Anchorage and drove around with my CO plates. I never established residency though which is officially 1 year up there. There's lot of seasonal folks up there from all over so you don't need to change your plates

 

No... I've only been here a couple of years, but would NOT have either way.

I believe they rolled this out in the metro areas (portland, salem, etc.)... All metro areas of OR have annual smog checks, so they'd use that I'm sure. Also we are suppose to accurate report our annual miles to insurance companies here (which is some of how rates are determined), but the insurance companies don't really verify. Finally, you've got every technician, repair shop, etc. reporting to CarFax now, so I'm sure that's another way to verify.

Regarding out of state miles , but I'm sure it'll be much like registration is now... Let's say I live in Portland, but drive into WA daily for work; my registration would be through OR, and I'd pay whatever rates are assessed regardless of the percentage of use the vehicle sees in OR... (*** although I would not WA's tax or DMV fees/rates)...

Which then creates a situation where folks will want to start finding ways to avoid the fees by creating 'residences' out of state. Much like forming and operating an LLC in NV is advantageous from a tax perspective. So, many businesses rent the cheapest office space they can find and 'operate' but actually operate their business where resources and consumers are prosperous.

It's just another goat rope to increase their own budgets because they are outspending them and not being held accountable to the resources they have. Most new programs we see here are funded by taxpayers through NEW taxes (not a shift in budget expenditures or re-allocation of funds). Each consumer residing in ANY state is responsible to live according to their own means and we essentially must maintain our own budgets.

We are getting to a point where this will no longer be sustainable for the 'average' consumer/household...

There's a reason why many of these 'programs' and ideas originate and intiate in areas like Portland Metro, Seattle, and CA

Sorry, but I've got to cut this short before I run myself into some beach time for crossing a line on discussion topics...

 

Yikes!
In E.WA, registration is roughly $100/year regardless of the vehicle year.

As a Tundra and EV owner, I hope they don't do something stupid with taxes. We already have top 3 highest gas prices in the country.

 

We 'vote' on new taxes as well. But, the problem here is that the majority of the state lives in Multnomah County (Portland Metro) and Salem; and we have a low voter turn out. So, getting 'hot button' driven taxes passed that affect climate control, the environment, or similarly 'driven' bills through legislation is fairly easy especially w/the younger generations that are based out of those Metro areas. Unfortunately, not a lot of folks are doing any critical thinking or analyzing the data and information that is being fed to them. So, it's easy to sway a vote in favor of a hot button topic.

I don't watch a lot of TV or venture too much into social media (except Tundras.com ), but when I catch a few commercials or news reels it's pretty obvious when we are about to get a new push on something based on the current 'crisis' being talked about.

 

Why don't they just charge a use tax at the EV charging station? I'm sure they could calculate a tax per kWh used.

Oh and also because it's a tax thread...

F taxes.

 

That's the ticket right there, you can "pass" anything with the right crisis

 

Whoa there, you’re making a good point to tax EV’s. So it won’t get implemented because it doesn’t screw everyone, just the select few that jumped on the EV wagon. That same EV wagon that’s being pushed on us.
Wait for the personal property tax to come too.

 

That was my thought as well but then I remembered that several EV owners have charging stations at home so they would be exempt which wouldn't be fair to those without home charging. I think all EVs should have automatic vehicle telematics that can't be disabled. That's one of the options for reporting miles driven. I imagine though that so many people would be against that.

 

Me for one.

Less control is what we want

 

In Europe the actual owners of EV's get a direct annual tax.
So here they want to charge a 'mileage' tax on top of horrendous fuel taxes?? We all know who is going to get
screwed on that. ICE vehicles pay at the pump, EV can pay annual or by mileage or whatever other thing they
can conjure up. But then see how the 'who pays more' debate gets going.

How about a software programmed right into the EV so owner is charged a proper 'EV charge rate' when they
charge no matter what source of charge they utilize?? That way they can start to pay their fair share of the
road taxes they now gloatingly don't pay.

 

I agree 100%. I think the best way of handling this is an annual EV tax during registration. Installed software would be a good idea but software can be hacked and/or reprogrammed, who knows?
I believe that in the end the current gas tax won't go away even after they approve this whole road charge so we'll be paying double tax!

 

A "proper EV charge rate" is pretty vague, do you mean a standardized flat rate to charge regardless of US location?
With how much power prices vary, that could be a can of worms.

 

Per state I’d say. Calculated regardless of mileage, based solely on amount of charge just like
quantity of fuel. If we burn less gas, we pay less tax but we all pay the same tax. So car charge
is same tax calculated and added to charge rate of location. Hey, I’m a pilot not an economist.

 

We pay a gas tax. Charging a mileage tax is compounding the tax!! BS!!! I’m Canadian, that’s what
our government does. Wouldn’t fly down south.

 

I am also in California. As a public policy expert, I can say the EV problem is legit.

What I don’t understand though is how this has anything to do with the gas pump. The state is looking to shore

I am also in CA. As a public policy expert, I can attest to the EV problem being legit. The gas tax is also a problem because it taxes everyone equally. Those who use or abuse the roads more pay exactly the same rate as someone who rarely drives. At least in theory, you could argue truckers should pay significantly higher gas taxes than the rest of us; it’s the big rigs that do the most damage to the roads and environment. (And yes I’m aware of the problems with that — I’m not saying it should be done, just illustrating the inequities of the gas tax in general).

That said, I will not be tracked by my government. No devices for me. Period. But I am also not willing to upload a photo once a month either. ive got better things to do and not a ton of time. Not sure what the solution to the problem is, but this certainly isn’t workable.

 

As one who pays the lowest power prices in the country, I don't like the sound of that.
Even our state varies a lot.

I'm an electrician, not an economist either

 

My fear ( conspiracy theorist ) is that they start charging/applying road tax to household
electrical bills based on whether homeowner is EV owner or not. This is a Canadian fear not a
US fear.