Drain and fill @ 30K, overkill?

Bought my '19 with 20,000 miles, just hit 30,000 and did a drain and fill today with my oil change.

My mechanic (who I trust) said it was brown but not burnt, and I could probably go longer and be fine, but that he'd like to sell it to me every 30K... we've had a couple of conversations about my truck not having the cooler so he knows I'm being extra anal about this.

For $135 I feel like I'd rather do them more often than needed, than try to save money and squeeze a few more miles between them.

On the negative side, I think his car wash guy or somebody snagged a couple bucks outta' my center console.

 

He did use WS @ $25/qt.

He only charged me 1/2 hr. labor.
Not gonna lie, I was surprised how cheap it was... that's not how I'm normally surprised there.

 

Overkill, absolutely not in my opinion…

Without getting too far done the transmission temp rabbit hole changing the fluid more in theory should prolong the life of it just as it does with the motor.

 

Yep. I do tow about 30% of the time and I did my first at 22K and about to do another at 34K. He's making his money off the WS.

 

Guy isn’t getting rich on it that’s for sure. I’d keep at it if you don’t want to do it yourself for half the price.

 

It’s very easy to do yourself. Also it’s wasn’t cheap but I just installed a trans cooler. I was running 240 265 degrees just around town.
Off road I got the overheat alarm twice.
Since I added cooler hasn’t raised past 201.
It’s a small portion of the overall fluid. changing more I’m sure is better.

 

Overkill?? Nope, not in my opinion. The parts guy at the dealership looked at me like I was crazy the first time I asked him for four quarts of ATF when I was around 30k miles on my truck. He almost didn't want to sell it to me, like I was asking him to leave in on the back step and look the other way while I threw in the truck in the middle of the night and ran. Now they are more than happy to sell me four quarts, no questions asked.

Remember that you are only replenishing 25% of the fluid and additive package. If you consider 150k miles the life of the transmission fluid (I don't recall where I got that number, but it's in the cobwebs somewhere competing with 120k miles), at 30k, the fluid in the transmission has 80% life left. Drop four out of 12 quarts and you are left with eight quarts @ 80% = 6.4 quarts worth of additive. Add the four new quarts are you are 10.4 /12 quarts new fluid, or 86.6% "new" fluid. If you use the 120k mile figure, that puts you at 83% after the fluid drain and fill.

As a reference, I had Blackstone run a UOA on my transmission fluid around 180k miles after six or so drain and fills over the life of the transmission. They recommended a drain and fill with every engine oil change for the next few changes. The additive pack was still good and oil viscosity in range, but the suspended wear metals were high (as expected in a high mile transmission, not necessarily indicating a transmission issue). So as much as we want to keep the ad-pack healthy, we also need to clean out the wear material that doesn't get filtered out like motor oil does. The only way to do this is with a fluid exchange. I had planned on doing as much and had a dozen quarts of WS ATF on the shelf.

As an aside, I considered adding an external spin-on type filter to the transmission as well.

As a second aside, I build a fluid life calculator spreadsheet real quick like. At 30k mile intervals, the fluid life has to be assumed 90k miles or more or else the fluid life will drop below 0% at 180k miles. So if towing, I would certainly do a drain and fill every 30k or earlier, and several in a row when getting up in miles.

 

One wonders if the pump would be up to the job of pushing enough flow through the filter.

 

That is my concern. The last thing I want to do is disrupt flow/pressure through the system, second only to excess temps above 230F. Luckily, since monitoring, I don't recall seeing over 220F for any period of time.

 

Wow Blenton, that's way too much math for my pea brain at this time of night.

 

I really don't... I'm less and less motivated to wrench on stuff in my spare time these days, I just wanna' go surf.

 

Damn, that's pretty hot. Is that TC temps?

I haven't hitched up the trailer yet since I started monitoring, but so far the highest I've seen is only like 206º. Once it got there it didn't budge.

 

Lemme tell ya, it ain't much easier in the morning. I'm gonna have to finish my coffee and get a pencil and paper to draw this all out so I can understand it.

 

100% overkill

Manual calls for ATF change at 90K, 60K if towing a lot…how much towing do you do? Your changing it at 1/2 the mileage for heavy usage…It’s like changing your oil every 2,000 miles, unnecessary…
If you’re doing 30K changes, maybe you should splurge on a cooler …
The Aisin AB60F six-speed tranny is literally bulletproof…
The million mile Tundras from the Gulf of Mexico Hotshot drivers had no tranny issues doing just 60,000 mile service, and they routinely towed over weight limits…In fact, the most impressive thing to me about them is that the only damage to their rigs was to the bed, from plopping in super heavy equipment and hauling it long distance, they also pulled big flatbed trailer
Out transmissions (2.5 Gen and older) are one of the best things about our trucks

 

I did the first d&f in my 2019 at 19k miles. ATF was already brown. Should have done that even earlier.

 

So ATF was about twice more expensive than sold on already expensive Amazon. 30 minutes is about right for DIY. You have to dig around unorganized storage also known as "garage", in attempt to find those plastic ramps to drive the truck onto, figure out you ran out of beer, shoot to the liquor store, come back and finally do it.

 

Maybe back in 50s, when ATF was basically just a dyno oil. Modern transmissions rely on ATF heavily boosted with slippage additives. When then run out, and they do it quickly, clutch packs are chewing themselves out. You may even feel that in a smaller car with tiny engine, that something is not right, but 5.7 gives no sh.t if something can't handle the torque smoothly anymore.

Do drain & fill every 30k or couple of years, and the transmission will live a few times longer. Additives wear out with every gear shift and every torque converter lock. Remember those million miles trucks with the original engine, but transmission replaced? There is no reason why engine would outlive the transmission, unless its owner assumed ATF is really lifetime.

 

I had the same crazy high temps in my 2019 just rolling the freeway in mid 50s ambient temp. Gone with the cooler reintroduced back to the truck.

 

You guys should talk.

 

Agreed doing a single drain-fill every 5 motor oil changes can't hurt (except pocketbook a bit) and keeps both fresh and used fluids doing their thing. Not sure about the spin on filter but besides the magnet on the drain plug could add a Magnafine filter (they have a by-pass in case of excess clogging) - change once a year.

Mine (no cooler) also gets too hot for my taste (peaks momentarily at 248 - cruises 75 at 218) and am working on adding the OEM hardware for a cooler. Even if these transmissions are Toyota Tough I'd still like to help it some with cooler fluid. Luck all.

 

Eh, seems like I messed it up. The 2019 0.9M miles Tundra has got a new transmission, but 2007 and 2014 were on original. Because they were services every 60k, which is what, like every 6 months?

 

So I've been surprised to learn that I'm only driving like 5K miles a year now. Used to be 10-12K

Used to be driving to jobs all over town, now my commute is 2 miles. I come home for lunch most days, so 40 miles a week plus whatever I do on the weekends.

For $135 I'll gladly do drain/fills way more than necessary, pretty cheap insurance I think.

At that rate this truck, and hopefully transmission should last forever. (Or at least until I'm that little old man holding up traffic who's had his blinker on since leaving the house that morning)

 

While we're on the topic. If a person is doing a drain and fill with a trans cooler installed do you pin or unpin the cooler?

 

Both Victor Sheppard, and his buddy Aaron Morvant, put over a million miles on a 2007 Tundra. Victor did it again in a 2014 with the bigger engine (5.7L).
They both had some tranny work done after high 100,000s miles, Victor had his 2014 rebuilt after 800K, cuz it wasn’t pulling uphill well. They never had them replaced . From Aaron Morvant:

“Even with all the wear and tear, the pickup and its engine have held up quite well. He says he's on his 20th set of tires, second alternator and had his transmission rebuilt, although, he now regrets repairing it.


"I took it in to get the transmission rebuilt because it wasn’t shifting right," he explains. "Looking back at it, I probably just needed it flushed." “


Aaron switched to Victors dealership after 100K, and followed the routine schedule (tranny fluid at 60K). This is a real ATF change, not drain and fill, with a machine like this:

 

If I am not mistaken, that 90k service is a full fluid replacement, not a drain a fill as is being discussed here. Most of us go by the Severe Duty Maintenance Schedule, which calls out an ATF service, whereas the standard duty service recommends simply checking the fluid at 100k. It is actually fairly difficult to qualify for the standard duty service (i.e. - you NEVER tow or drive down a dusty road or use 4x4 or drive it hot weather..).

I tow weekly, BTW, and always have 400-1000 lbs in the bed.

Agreed. That's why I was making an assumption about fluid life as that number changes due to vehicle usage. I'm 100% on the same page with the new oils relying heavily on the additive package instead of just being a hydraulic fluid to transmit fluid force.

Here are a couple of quick fluid life calculations based off of 80k, 90k, 120k, and 150k fluid life assumptions. Or, in other words, transmissions that get worked hard vs those that live the easy life.

 

Pin the cooler open for the drain and fill procedure. You can use a flat blade screwdriver to depress the button and very small (1.5mm?) allen key to hold it down; it is setup much like a cotter pin locks a nut, only it holds the button down instead.

 

That was pan temp, TC was even hotter.
I monitored the temps for about two weeks before I installed the cooler. It was giving me anxiety lol

 

By Severe Duty Maintenance Schedule, do you mean Additional Maintenance Items for Special Operating Conditions?
I dug out my Maintenance Guide, and I don’t see any 90,000 recommendation to change ATF, just the 60,000 and 120,000, under the special conditions. In fact, I don’t see ANY recommendation to change ATF at all, unless towing, etc. Also, there’s no recommendation to check the fluid, just to check for leaks .

 

Yup, that's it. The Toyota spec sheet for WS ATF has a note for 100k mile fluid inspection. I don't recall if the same is in the manual (I seem to recall it being buried away somewhere) but the spec sheet for the fluid itself, not specific to any vehicle, calls for an inspection.