If you're a Gen 3 owner, what do you do?

From my oil analysis experience, one sample is not enough unless it's a disaster. Would need several data point to make call. I suspect the current oil analysis folks dont have the capacity for 100K samples immediately.

From my perspective and opinion, Toyota should be working on procedure to drop the pan and crankshaft bed while engine is still in vehicle. This will allow eyes on analysis for bearing and crankshaft inspection.

 

I agree. I don't believe a simple analysis will be definitive, except for the basket case motors whose samples contains bearing chunks.

 

Dunno if that is possible with this frame set up, not really looked that well to be honest. But yanking the crank out and expecting a tech to get that back in place without damaging the journals or knocking a bearing out of place is a hole can of worms. That would potentially fail even quicker.

 

I thought about trading my ‘22 for a ‘24, but my feeble brain started having silly thoughts. Is it possible ’24s aren’t included so they can still sell new trucks? Most likely not the case due to the feds being involved, but who knows…

 

Don't need to drop the crank for inspection. Drop the crankshaft bed which should include the lower half of the bearing, should see all the needs to be seen.


https://toyota-club.net/files/faq/19-09-10_faq_df_v6_eng.htm

 

I feel that's most likely the case. . .

 

Especially if they aren’t showing all their cards to the NHTSA. It may turn out to be debris. And if that’s what they’re telling them, they don’t have to stop sales. But if they told them it was a fundamental design flaw with the 3.5 that creates a safety issue, there would be no more sales.

 

I see many posts questioning the truth of what Toyota is saying. Fair enough I suppose. Nobody says you have to believe what you are told.

But what would be the case if that were true? It would mean that Toyota lied to NHTSA. A fraud on a government office for economic gain. That seems like a huge risk - like VW diesel-gate proportions.

I’ve read everything posted on NHTSA, and if Toyota is lying about this, they are lying about the entire 18 month+ investigation and engineering analysis that they have done. I don’t see much wiggle room to later say, “well, I guess we were wrong, it is a design issue.” That must have been considered and rejected as a cause somewhere along the way - probably right up front.

 

I've been on the other side of this and you really don't want to lie about stuff. Every email, every text, staff meeting minutes, speeches, interviews, absolutely everything is hauled out into the light of day. They have exposed themselves by making public what they did. If their actions don't line up to that, it's known quickly and dealt with harshly. A politicians or AG's delight. They even shut the door pretty hard on expansion of the range by stating they tested after the process change. To me, the biggest thing they left open is the % and remediation but that's probably because they don't know.

 

Never mind a stop sale, If it's a fundamental design flaw they probably stop product production while they sort. They will not make more units at a loss if remediation consumes the profit per unit.

 

In my case it isn't so much that I don't believe Toyota, it just that I haven't seen enough hard information to be totally convinced of the failure mode they propose. And, yes, I have read their report. In any case it really doesn't matter what we believe. We will get the remedy they develop and that will be that. Hope it's a good one.

 

Southeastern Toyota Dealers come with a lifetime drivetrain warranty that includes the engine for the original owner.

I dont plan to do any worrying, just going to drive it. Headed from NC to Colorado in a month. 4 - already got it, 5 - yep, 7 - exactly.

BTW a replacement long block is much less expensive than a short block rebuild.

Checked on trading to a 24 at my local dealer the other day, that a financial mistake for sure. Not happening. I never really intended to do this but it was in for an oil change and I was bored.

My 23 Limited built 11/22 purchased Jan 23 has just over 45K on it.

 

Exactly. And it’s not like we haven’t seen recalls expanded before based on new information. Like with Takata airbags. We’ve already seen engine failures being tracked that occurred on builds after 2/23. Could it be because they’re wrong on the root cause? Could it be because the problem wasn’t resolved with the cleaning process by then like they said? Just too many things they’re saying that don’t make sense based on the info provided. And Toyota lying to regulators? Hell, it wouldn’t be the first time this. Just go read about their emissions scandal.

 

The NHTSA will never allow a car manufacturer to offer safety waivers to customers. LOL. That is definitely not going to happen. It's a mess and also curious what the end game is.

 

But let’s be realistic. Toyota paid a $180m fine a few years ago for lying about emission data to the US gov’t. for over a decade. And now this new scandal alleges they’ve also been lying to Japanese regulators about emissions data for decades. So let’s not forget that and disregard the possibility that they’re not showing all their cards on this just issue because lying to the fed is bad and costly. Their prior actions have proven that they can and will.

 

This^^^^^ X10

 

Judge it after reading the settlement and the VW settlement.

 

We have seen stuff like this from many mfgs, notably GM stonewalling about those defective ignition switches, and, of course, dieselgate. It is a sad comment on ethics when corporations flaunt the regs so readily for the chance for a little extra profit, knowing that if caught, any fines will not really hurt them.

 

Yep. For sure. Corporations will test the regulators at times. In regards to VW. A bit different.They deliberately fudged their diesel numbers in order to bypass our regulations. Flat out deception. That was a very costly mistake. We don't have any proof that Yota is lying, and any speculation here on that is no different than a FB post.

 

I don't believe Toyota is lying. And declaring a safety recall is a big deal. I just don't know if they really have the root cause nailed down, at least from the information that is available to me.

 

I think about, for sure, but try not to worry about it too much. But I have been driving my other car a good bit more recently and giving the Tundra a "rest".

Good luck with the Ford. Hope you got a good one.

 

Due respect but I really think you're over rotated on the information provided. I think they provided what is developed at this point. Could it change? Of course but I doubt they are over or understating the facts. Regrettably, I was the key person in a case that was a 9 figure loss. We paid the plaintiff the money to avoid going through the DOJ machinations. Read the VW settlement on how badly it can go. Then read it again. The Tundra would have board and CEO visibility at this point. Highly unlikely they would publish false information. That then becomes dicey if they are even covered under directors and officers insurance. They also really put themselves in a box with the end of July milestone. I'm Toyota agnostic but I think they are doing what they can do with a complicated situation at this point in time.

 

I know you don't think Yota is lying. I was agreeing with you. Of course there will be lots of speculation here and FB because that is all it can be for now. Ha!

 

I drove by Stevenson's Yota East yesterday. Felt like pulling in to watch their vultures pounce on me like they used to do everytime I was in for an oil change. Decided not to. Looked pretty slow. There is some construction going on in front which will affect things. They are offering some modest discounts. Until recently Tundras were selling like lumberjack hotcakes. Word is slowly getting out now.

 

Exactly. Information vacuums invite speculation. That's what we do best!

 

The way I look at it, Yota has to make it right and will. They really have no other option now that the spun bearing issue is on the marquee!

 

I just want to say, Toyota is going through it in Japan right now for lying about crash test results. So they really aren't squeaky clean like they put off. They were found doing some other tricks with a smaller company they own that makes trucks too.

 

The only significant information that is missing, IMO, is the mechanism of transfer to and capture of the contaminants into the bearings. All the report says is "during the mfg process". In order to fix it, which they claim to have done, they have to know what that is. And if they know what that is why didn't they put it in the report? I have seen the "first startup" theory and that just doesn't seem plausible to me. Nor does that sound like part of the "mfg process".

 

Yeah, Toyota wouldn’t lie about anything safety related, especially something like crash tests.

 

Good points.

It may not be that Toyota is lying. It may be a reasonably held belief that one cause out of 100's is the main culprit. It could also be that there are multiple causes of failure.

They may have actually found some failed units that had some debris somehow stuck in only one oil passage that feeds the #1 main. And somehow that debris is taking 20,000 miles for it to cause failure. In fact it may actually be the only thing concrete they have found that is remotely plausible.

(personally, to me, this sounds like the Kennedy assassination theory)

When Toyota confronts an issue like this with 100's of variables (as the case for all OEMs) they break out standard problem solving methods. I'm sure there is a master diagram of all possible sources of defect. I'm sure there is immense efforts looking into the plausibility of each one. I'm sure design aspects are one of them. Manufacturing aspects is likely to be a huge portion of it. Not just cleaning operations either but looking into things like tolerance stacking. However the data and testing required to produce a clear connection to root cause can take alot of time on many of these variables.

If they prematurely call it a design issue, then that can lead to a "stop-ship" that is essentially a shutdown of Tundra production. Authorities may request or demand that Toyota alert customers to not drive the vehicles.

Toyota has to tell authorities something. I'm sure they have told authorities that there may be more than one cause but it will take time to find this with certainty. I'm also sure that the language on the communications was pre-cleared by Toyota legal and with consultation with authorities.