3rd Gen Max Highway Driving Range - Hybrid vs. Non Hybrid?

can the new engine take advantage of high octane fuel? I believe I read the old V8 would do the same or worse on high octane.

 

A bunch of forum members believe so, myself included. On the order of preventing 8-12 degrees of retard under load depending on conditions with 93 or 91 compared with 87. Keeping the engine out of timing retard is increasing both power and efficiency just enough to be measurable. Maybe an extra 1 mpg when going hyper-mile on the highway up hills, on top of the 1-2 mpg savings from not using cruise gives. Makes zero economic sense when it's an extra $1 a gallon but somehow it just feels good ha...just fill it with regular and put on the cruise it's cheaper.

 

Must be incredibly flat where you live.

No way in hell trying to maintain RPM is doing shit where I am aside from going 35 mph on hills, at which point the transmission will downshift anyway.

If your 5.7L/6 speed auto combo is capable of the magic you claim I suggest you keep it forever.

 

The one road trip I’ve taken so far seem to only engage the iforce max meter when I stepped on it. But cruising it didn’t need to engage. I’m in middle tennessee so not super hilly, but I would assume that the hybrid system would engage if going up a steep enough grade. But for the most part it would just cruise. No gear hunting, no high revving (unless you got on it to pass), way more comfortable than my 3rd Gen Tacoma. From what I heard though the only real advantage to the hybrid is mostly off the line or towing. I didn’t test drive the non hybrid model so I can’t give you a good comparison. But like stated above I’m happy I went with the hybrid for the extra power and torque. Plus given the smoked mesquite color and the long bed, truck sat for over two months and they were willing to make a deal on it. I’ve seen some people pay more than I did for a non hybrid limited. So I’m happy

 

This is another dead-horse-beating topic that I wish could be added to a sticky thread of "expected behavior of 3rd Gen Tundras"

There is a very specific reason that all you read from Toyota marketing speaks mainly about "passing power or tackling grades with a trailer or things like that" and no mention of fuel economy benefits. There's also a very specific reason that you will not find the word "hybrid" written on any logo on the truck.

Toyota does and always has marketed the hybrid iFORCE-Max as a vehicle performance upgrade.

Unfortunately, people just by default combine "Toyota" and "hybrid" and expact that to equal "Toyota Prius Fuel Economy Truck".

It's not a fuel economy upgrade; it's a performance upgrade. If you are solely looking for better fuel economy, then don't spend the upgrade costs because it will achieve nothing for money savings.

If you want massive amounts of torque coming off the line, extra towing oomph, and a smoother transition with the auto start/stop, the iFORCE-Max is absolutely worth the extra scratch.

 

The pump is in a sump, you don’t need to keep all this extra fuel in the tank to protect it from overheating.

 

I run my tank down to zero range left quite frequently and right at the point of hitting zero I usually fill up around 28.25 gallons. How much farther I can go beyond that is a mystery as I have not really gone much beyond that point.

 

Yes, you said it perfectly. I didn't always use the full 38 gallon tank in the 2nd gen, but I did over half the time. Also nice to have the capacity or extra margin if you’re in rural areas.

 

Very interesting!

 

Hybrid does zippo over 65 MPH. Hybrid does all its work from 0 - 65. And no matter what the hybrid haters say, you get better mileage when your engine isn't running.....you just need to be 65 and under. Once you tip over 65 MPH, you just get the same mileage as a non hybrid. I have one, and trust me it gets better mileage than a non hybrid as long as you stay under the magic number .

 

Ha yes it is very flat. North and west Texas I keep my K&N pretty clean too. Key is keeping it in 6th at +\- 1900 RPM. That is good for 75-80mph

 

Agree with everything you said, I’m just wondering if the hybrid isn’t actually a performance downgrade in one particular area. By that I mean when it comes to maximum highway driving range. If you are hauling around an extra quarter ton that doesn’t engage on flat highways over 65 mph I'm starting to think that the hybrid is maybe a downgrade in that one particular area. Hope that makes more sense.

 

.

Thanks so much! That’s the exact question I was asking!

if the electric is shut off over 65 when you’re just maintaining speed, then that would make sense on why it would get worse mileage at higher highway speeds due to the excess weight that is not contributing in that particular regime and therefore cutting down on maximum driving range.

 

LOL.

1900 RPM doesn’t buy you 75-80 MPH in your truck with stock tires and a 4.30:1 rear axle.

Your stock 275/65/R18 is 32.07” in diameter, rear end gear is 4.30:1, 6th gear is .59:1. So you have to turn 2126 RPM to make 80 MPH.

1900 RPM gets you to 72 MPH.

There is a big difference in wind resistance going from 70 MPH to 80 MPH. Requires a lot more power.

 

For comparison the 3rd Gen Tundra with a 3.31:1 rear end, .610:1 10th gear, and 32.52” diameter tires (everything but TRD Pro) will see top gear RPM at 80 MPH of 1669 RPM.

Depending on how much torque the engine can make at 1650-1700 RPM it might not see 10th gear very often on anything but very flat ground.

 

You may be right, I didn't look into the gas tank but the topic was discussed here before. All I know, if I get down to 0 range left I can put about 28 gallons of gas.

 

Super helpful information! Can't argue with math. That sounds like pretty low consumption and amazing range if it can maintain 80 mph at 1669 RPM! No wonder folks are seeing over 20 mpg on long trips.

 

Great math on that! Props to you.

Sorry forgot to mention I had 295 tires on 20" 1794 wheels. Maybe its was closer to 2,000 RPM, but no more throttle than would cause it to drop a gear and GPS would float between 75 and 80 and tanks would average 18mpg when calculated at the pump.

 

You been spending too much time sitting in the hole?

 

LOL… how did you know?

 

The battery isn’t that big. I doubt it weighs more than an adult male in the back seat. Going 80 instead of 75 is doing more damage to your maximum driving range.

 

It’s not just the battery, but still, that seems off to me. Toyota increased the GVWR by ~500 lb to 7750 and you still only have ~1300-1400 lb of payload.

The hybrid truck empty weighs 400+ lb more than my 2nd gen crewmax. And the non-hybrids weigh less than my truck. The hybrid weight is not insignificant.

I agree that 80mph in any of these bricks isn’t helping anyone…

 

any engine made in the past 20 years should be able to take advantage of higher octane fuel. To what degree is dependent on the tuning. My 2014 F150 Ecoboost would use 96 octane towing and still didnt max out the available timing that the PCM allowed, but was close.

I do know that my 4.6L in my GX460 and the 5.7L in my LX570 both advance and retard timing global based on fuel octane. You can monitor it yourself with an OBD device. Its usually called KCLV(long term average timing adjustment) and Knock Feedback(instantaneous timing adjustment).

I'd be surprised if it made less torque than my 2014 Ecoboost did at 1700 rpm, which was claimed to be 90% of the peak 420 ft-lbs.

The entire hybrid system including the battery and motor and all the electronics is somewhere in the 500 - 600 lb range:

 

The Tundra hybrid was designed to assist towing (more torque) more so than better mpg. The car care nut did a deep dive into how it works and why. Check out his youtube video.

I have owned multiple car hybrids. All of them were worse mpg on the highway. Why? Very little regen from the braking or shutting off the gas motor compared to city driving plus the energy to maintain speed at high speeds. Mpg also went down in the winter because the gas motor has to run to provide cabin heat.

Rule of thumb is get a non hybrid if you do mostly highway driving, there is very little advantage vs cost of a non hybrid.

If you aren't towing, you are wasting money for tech you won't be using.

 

Been “dragging” freight on the Hi-line since 05..

 

I said battery.

Your logic is flawed. 4X2 compared to a 4X4? That extra axle, transfer case is included in that weight your waving around. 18 inch wheels versus 20/22 inch wheels are in that weight. 4X2 has a metal roof, Platinum Hybrid has glass plus all mechanisms to open it , that weight is included. Gas tanks are different sizes........ Could go on forever.

 

I think apples to apples trim and options the same, its around 400 lbs, which I think is the exact amount they raised the GVWR to compensate for the hybrid version to maintain close to the same payload given the other difference in mechanicals,

 

@MTRock

Been at it on the Powder River Division since ‘07 here. Pretty slow right now.

Man the takeover of the MRL looks to be a complete shit show. LOL.

 

The BNSF is a shit show! So naturally..

 

A ton of those guys quit in Laurel, they can’t get shit in or out of the yard right now.