So it looks like I have the worst Stock System possible!

Just found out that my truck (2016 Tundra SR "Work Truck") is one of the rare ones that does not even have an amp, nor a center speaker. It clearly doesnt have the JBL upgrade, so it is as basic as it gets.

Ive hit up Tech12volts and am awaiting a suggested install (Dude appears busy AF), but at this point it looks like I am going to start with a full speaker/amp upgrade and see how well the head unit works. I personally dont really give a #*@! about ACP or AA, and am happy to just use my phone for that functionality. Thankfully the stock HU has blutooth so I can still use my phone to play Amazon Music through it, as well as make phone calls etc, so at this point I see little reason to upgrade the HU unless it still sounds like trash after the speaker/amp upgrade. Regardless, I plan to find out .

After finding out that the center channel (dash) was empty, I had planned to add that as well, but from the sound of it, people are actually removing that channel in favor of better door speakers. So originally I was thinking replacing all 4 door speakers, add the center tweeters, a 10" sub, and an Amp to run it all (hopefully all in one amp). However, after reading some of what you guys are saying, many are skipping the center tweeter channel, as well as the rear doors.....Clearly that would bring the price down substantially!

What do you all think?

Edit:
After reading through some of these threads, I have a strong feeling yall gonna convince me to buy a new HU/DSP too.

 

A new head unit is a plus for so many reasons, the most important is that you will get a clean signal to the amplifiers and speakers. Else, you would need to DSP the signal just to get it flat so that you can EQ to your tastes. It also makes integrating and controlling up an aftermarket amplifier so much easier. You could also go with something like and AudioControl OEM integration amp, but you'd most likely save money by installing a new head unit and 5 channel amplifier over the Audiocontrol unit.

You may think you have the most garbagey system Toyota offered in the tundra - which may be true - but you also have the easiest to modify and cheapest to change. So that's a plus. My truck came with basically the same system and I was more than happy to change it up. It used to be our family vehicle on the weekends so I opted to go with all four channels of audio instead of just the front two. Though, honestly, I'd still put some rear fill in even if it was just me; that's how I've setup almost every system I've installed in my vehicles because I didn't care for front's only.

I've installed several 5 channel amps for friends and such, but opted for a separate four channel and mono block subwoofer amplifier. It made things a little more complicated but also simpler to tune, easier to modify, and more flexible. But I change components from time to time as well.

My unsolicited recommendations are inline with a lot of what you've already figured out: New head unit, 5 channels of amplification, good money in to your front components, ok rear speakers (not garbage, but usually the lower series compared to your front speakers), and a solid sub. Depending on how much space you are willing to dedicate to subs, a 10" might suffice but, IME, a 12" or dual 10's/12's does a better job. While that should be self evident, I think what makes it worth it in the tundra is the fact that most standard depth subs won't fit in your vehicle so you are forced to use shallow or slim or flat subs. I'm guessing you have a double cab, being a work truck? I could make a few sub recommendations if you would like, but good flat subs are difficult to find; they are also limited in excursion compared to standard depth subwoofers so you have to make up for it in cone area. Hence, the recommendations for a single 12 or dual 10's.

I've made several changes to my system over the years but I started with the head unit and worked my way back from there. I've been very happy with the results. I also bypassed all of the factory speaker wiring except where they go through the door grommets and in to the doors. I ran new wiring from the amplifier to the kick panels or be pillars to access and tap in to the wiring through the doors. I also placed my crossover units in the kick panels to split them to the tweeters in the dash. In hindsight, I should have just run an extra set of wiring to the front and placed the crossovers with the amplifiers. That's on the possibility docket for the next round of upgrades when my new subs *FINALLY* show up (been on order for a year. Oof). I also plan on placing the tweeters in the sail panel or A pillars rather than the dash. After much experimentation, the factory dash placement can be peaky and harsh - the sail panels or a pillars sound MUCH better, IMO.

Hope that helps.

 

I couldn't have explained it any better than @blenton has..
I'm one of those who found a good set of front door components with the tweeter in the door sail is the way to go.
I disconnected all 3 dash speakers, with OEM wiring they run off the HU anyway...

I will second the aftermarket HU and the 5-channel amp with a sub enclosure.
Although some are running 4 channel amps with a self-powered sub box.

Your amp(s) fit easily under the passenger front seat..


Good luck...

 

Thanks for the advice!

Yes, its a double cab. As for the door sails, clearly I dont have sails with the tweeters, so i suppose I could pick up some. Looks like those are about $35 for a pair....

I will say dual 12s is way more bass than I need. I used to run dual 12" kickers in my Beretta back in the day, it was WAY more bass than anyone could need IMO. I had dual 10s in the same vehicle and that was also more than enough. I actually kinda like the smaller 8s and 10s because they have a tighter punch, as opposed to the booming bass. As for the HU, I am not 100% against a new HU, but certainly budget comes into play. I was planning on spending >$1500, and it looks like going with a new HU would require more like $3k. As I said previously, I may very well find that I want a new HU, but I think I am going to start with an amp and new door speakers, sub, and perhaps some tweeters. Given that my current system is 100% HU powered, with shitty speakers, it really is about as bad as it gets, so I think just doing that is going to sound worlds better than it does today.

 

Budget is certainly always a part of the equation - totally understandable.

As for the recommendation for dual subs, it's simply due to limited excursion. If you have, say a 10" sub capable of 14 mm Xmax (fairly standard for a value subwoofer - not cheap but not high dollar) but your flat sub only has 7 mm of excursion due to the design, you would need two flat 10" subs to make the same amount of bass as a standard 10" sub. Really, I'm just saying that you sometimes have to lower your expectations a little bit for shallow/flat subs when comparing them to standard subwoofers. That's all. Currently, I run a single 12" sub but am moving to dual 11" subwoofers (ya, oddball size, I know). So do what works best for you and your budget.

I started with an 8 shoehorned in a tiny sealed box crammed in the back corner of the back seat. Then ran a Pioneer Premier 12 IB sub under the back seat for a while in both a sealed and vented box (sealed was surprising better). Tried a Kenwood Flat sub which was ok. Tried to fit a few other flat or slim subs like Sundowns back there. Ended up with and NVX flat sub that surprised the heck out of me while I waited for my SI BM11's to make it here. Of all of them, the NVX was the easiest to integrate, is clean sounding, and priced well enough that I didn't care of I accidentally killed it. It also takes power like a champ.

Concerning head units... as long as you are ok with Apple CarPlay for maps and such instead of a Navi unit, a quality double din in dash DVD head unit can be had for less than $500 (used to be $300 but inflation...). I think I paid less than $700 for my Pioneer AVIC-7200N a year or two ago; it has most all the bells and whistles for a few year old head unit and is basically only lacking wireless CarPlay. My sequoia has a Kenwood Unit without Navi, which we got from Crutchfield for less than $500. It came with the basic install kit for free.

I used iDatalink Maestro kits on both vehicles to integrate steering wheel controls as well view OBDII data (engine gauges, gauges not available on the dash cluster, tire pressure, check engine light, etc). That was about $150 for the both parts - you need basically the module and then the integration harness to make the module work with your particular vehicle. So that's $650 additional for a solid in dash DVD head unit. If all you want to do is stream media, those can be had for $300.

You are going to need an amplifier kit either way, and a couple of quality RCA cables, so that doesn't really factor in to the cost of the head unit.

Originally, I built my whole system for less than $1000. As it sits - with a few deals but not going used gear - I think I'm at <$1700 with the Navi head unit and separate mono amplifier. I should also add that I build all of my subwoofer boxes so that saves me a few bucks. The rear seat can be finicky to work around.

 

Roger that on the sub design. I have been out of the Car Audio scene for a while, and I was never working with confined spaces, so I assume I was using standard subs that didnt have limited excursion. I definitely can build my own box(es), which is a plus.

As for the HU, I would be totally ok with something that just supported ACP/AA. I have never cared for the Nav systems in any vehicle I have ever bought. The maps get out of date quickly as well as all the metadata, so I prefer to just use Google Maps/Waze. I also just use Amazon Music, so I dont need anything that stores crazy amounts of music, or video. So basically something that adds ACP and cleans up the sound quality would be more than sufficient.

 

No dsp needed

You can do a nice upgrade for $1500 if you do not need a 10 inch screen radio

kenwood. Dmx7709s. On sale crutchfield $349
Jvc kw-m780bt is basically the same thing for $299

dash kit and wiring harness crux smarty 61n. $99

so $400 gets a new radio

ct sounds ct-800.5 5 Channel amp. $199
Massive audio ct 2 28mm silk dome tweeters. $79
Silver flute x17rc38. 4 ohm. 6.5 inch woofers $70 for the pair on madisound

subs blaupunkt gb801 8 inch subs on Amazon $39 each on Amazon get 2 of them
build the sub box yourself. $70 build the box total internal volume of 1.4 cf tuned to 38 hz.

So far we are at $800 in equipment

Other things needed. Rca cables
Speaker wire
Power wire
Extra materials to build an amp rack under the passenger seat
Sound treatment for the doors
Etc,
This can be done for $200 or under

So $1000 total



This is not a hard install and could be done in a weekend.

Side note on the speakers
The massive audio ct2 tweeters are really good
The silver flute 6.5 inch is stupid good at what they cost.
The blaupunkt in the correct enclosure will flex the roof of a midsize suv with one 8 inch sub seen it done.. Someone on car audio forum hit over 140db with two 10 inch blaupunkt subs. Someone put 8 of the 8 inch subs in a T-line enclosure in a extended cab truck and hit 144db
They are probably the best sub on the market for less than $100. Crazy price at $39 they can be bought.


If the budget is $1500 I would change a few things

If it were $2000 some other things I would.look at

 

A couple a things - I agree with the Kenwood head unit oricing; the CT sounds amo is fine, too. For the front component set you suggested… those are cheap but overly complicated for a simple install; you are going to need a good crossover or DSP to run those. The silver flutes are venerable, but have a huge breakup in the midrange that has to be dealt with in the crossover, meaning an off the shelf crossover ain’t gonna do it. And for a few bucks more you can do much better if you are looking for a custom set. Peerless, HiVi, Dayton, SB, etc have very good selections for comparable monies that are much easier to integrate, IME.

As much as some of may dislike component sets from big brands, they rally are a good, quality, effective, simple route to go for good sound. Unless the OP is interested in falling down the DSP, WinISD, SoundEasy, RTA rabbit hole, I’d suggest sticking with a complete component set.

Also, as noted about subs, not much but a flat sub fits in the truck without some trickery and finagling. For the money, flat shallow subs are the best bet. That blaupubk 8 won’t fit without lots of compromise. And, IMO, it’s clunky.

 

Not to argue
But I disagree with almost everything


Massive ct tweeters come with pods and crossovers and sound fantastic
several people on car stereo forums using them

The blaupunkt will fit no problem
I am using rockford fosgate 8 in regular p2 8's and the blaupunkt is less mounting depth than the fosgate

The silver flute several people are using on car stereo forums with no issues for a budget sq build
If I want to buy a passive crossover for them they can be had for less than $50.

I bought a set of focal iss component series for my son's mustang. They are hot garbage compared to the flute and massive ct


I disagree on passive crossovers. They are a gamble
One set of component speakers may sound great in one car then sound terrible in a different setup

Like posted
For $1000 hard to beat

If the budget is different I would go a different way

I am running stereo integrity on my setup now
But that is way over his budget of 1500 to get setup

 

Have you ever measured the Silver Flutes? I’ve used them in a dozen of my own designs; they were my mains in my HT for years. +- 2db 80hz to 17k hz with more money in to the simplified crossover than the woofers. For $17 they used to be great, but only considering price - not because they outperform icy more expensive drivers. They are not $17 any more. And they have their own issues that become compromises acceptable to low budget.

I’m not arguing the merits of the components - just the mixed bag of results from choosing that route. You have to level match the woofers to the tweeters which is usually done via a two way crossover. Just mashing a tweeter with its own crossover next to a woofer run wide open is sure to cause issues that need to be squashed. Running the woofer wide open is a horrible idea for most woofers - more so for the Silver Flutes due to their breakup nodes.

I’m not poo-pooing your choice of gear. I’m poo-point the application. I’d suggest an already developed kit designed to work together.

 

When I ran them I was using a dayton dsp
Also before my rta days

I just played with the crossover points and slope with them tuned by ear
The massive 28mm tweeters play a little lower
Specs from 1.4-20k so that helps with the the epper end range issues with the flutes

The sensitivity is 91.5 dB on the flutes and 92db on the ct2 so they match well


You and I take stereo to a different level than most and have spent more than most will.

Given a 1000 budget I still probably would not change anything
At least with the starting gear recommended if I did not get the results wanted it would not cost to much more to add a 2 channel amp get a dayton 408dsp a 3 inch mid range and run an active 3 way

Would only add about 400-500 in cost

Also I did leave out the crossover for the flutes in the 1st post it will be needed

 

I'm late to the party, but want to say don't feel down about the set up your truck has. Even the "better" factory options aren't that good. On the bright side, you didn't pay extra for what's already there and set to be scrapped.

 

Blenton

I am curious
For $1000 what you go with?

I am going to start a build for a my son's
1986 mitsubishi starion and was going to keep it below 1000

 

Wow, I haven't seen a Starion in a long while! I'd own of those I don't know much about them, TBH, but I'm going to guess that the front doors probably have flat door cards and maybe a skinny 4" driver in it? Or some tiny speakers in the dash? But that hatchback area... you could make some bass with that, easy. I did a system for a friends Eclipse in high school years ago. Two RF HE2's or HX2's (can't remember, honestly) 12's up firing on to the rear glass. The hoser didn't want to buy new front speaker so I hated riding in it. It sounded horrible. All bass and no music. But it would do small hair tricks. We got in trouble with his dad cuz he showed up one day while the back glass was flexing and popped a seal. Ha.

So, if you are up for some experimenting with drivers... I'll make some suggestions to look at instead of proven stuff I know will work well enough. Happy to suggest some proven stuff as well, but you sound like you don't mind some homework.

I've been looking at Dayton's new-ish signature series woofers. They make a 4 ohm 6.5" driver that looks like an identical basket and similar motor to Peerless HDS drivers, but with an updated smooth cone. Look at how they dampened the resonant peak and breakup - it's crazy flat from 100hz up two 2500 hz with the breakup pushed to 10khz. That is a driver you *could* run wide open if you wanted to, but I think that even a single coil in the right place would net you close to 3rd order or more. That would pair nicely with a large or small format tweeter so take your pick so long as it has an FS below 2000 hz. I'd look at Peerless NE25VTS if looking small format or even those MA CT2's you mentioned above (I don't know much about them, but I also didn't have a good experience with my Massive Audio Hippo 8's; one is still NiB and the other barely made it through a test box before I changed direction).

I actually have both the Dayton woofers and Peerless tweeters sitting on the shelf in need of some attention once I get my measurement right setup again. I'm thinking they will make a great mid-budget setup in my truck or sequoia. They also make the sig series in 5.25" and 8"; both have a little bit of knee in the top of the response but are totally manageable. The 6.5, though, looks better from their stock graphs.

Amp - pick your poison. I think there are only a handful of class d amplifier manufactures these days, but some brands put better filters on what is essentially the same circuitry otherwise. I've had very good luck with Pioneer's GMD series as they were a great 'makes rated power cleanly at a good price' amp, but they aren't as affordable as they used to be. Fosgate, Infinity, Alpine, and kicker have also treated me well but they have all introduced "value" garbage lines in the last several years so it's kind of crapshoot unless you are will to pay a little more. I'd prolly be just as inclined to buy the CT Sounds D series if you are comfortable with those. I've tried a few off brands like D'Amore Audio and NVX with good results, but it's still easier to recommend a better known brand.

A sub I've been looking at playing with is the NVX VCX series. The D4 10" version is on sale for $120 right now. The 12 is sub $200, and the 15 is like 230 or something. The 12 will tune flat to 20 hz in about 2 cubes if I'm not mistaken (but you need a crazy port). So in a car, tuned to 30 hz at 1.5 cubes or so, you can feed it 800-1000 watts. The 10 is also pretty impressive. I'm a sucker for a good deal, so I might order one to play with. D4 would get you to 1 ohm with a pair. A pair sealed in that hatchback should RIP.

If spending a little more on subs, SI seems to have their SQ series on sale from time to time. I think the 12's were 235 at one point. That's another driver I'd like to try. But I'm not sure if a 12 would be too much in that Starion. Or it could be just right

If going a little bit the other direction, the Dayton MAxX subs look to have potential. Cheap, kippel'd excursion. But a simple motor :/

If you'd like some safer recommendations, I'm happy to make some as well. Also, @Torqued , if you are feeling adventurous, the above speaker rec's (except the subs) should work really well for you, too. Just need some crossover work or DSP.

 

I was looking through some newer versions of familiar components sets from the likes of Kenwood, Infinity, Kicker, Pioneer, etc. unfortunately, some of the revisions are to cheapen them, not improve them, IMO. If you are looking for off-the-shelf component sets, I have liked the sound of Pioneer D and Z series, Kenwood Excelon (mod and higher end versions), Kicker KS, Sony ES, Polk DB+, Infinity Kappa (old Reference were smoother, but they are not as good as they used to be), and Polk Monitor series. Of those, the standouts are Polk Monitor, Pioneer Z series, and the Infinity Kappas. BUT… things are changing.

Of all those sets, they do - or did - have a two way crossover setup with at least a first order high pass and low pass electrical filter. I’ve listened to all of them in a hifi shop display and most of them installed in a vehicle. Here’s a brief description of each that I found in my own experience.

The old Pioneer D series were smooth, open, detailed, and inoffensive. The crossover point was low - like 2400 or 2700 hz. The woofer was wel filtered and imaging was great for a car. Very natural and clean. The new D series are garbage. Yuck. The Z series is what the D series used to be, but they are a little disappointing. Of the two pairs I own, one has failed tweeters, the other has intermittently failing tweeters. But they are smooth and offer exceptional bass response (extension) considering. I have the Z series woofers integrated with the old D series tweeters in my truck.

The Infinity Kappas are significantly more expensive than they used to be so I don’t bother with them. They are clean, a little bright, and painfully loud without breaking up when properly powered and filtered.

The Polk Monitors are a solid sound platform with great response, better mid bass than most, maybe a little less bass extensions though. They are well integrated but tweeter placement can cause some grating sound - like there’s a peak or distortion that’s difficult to place. Off axis (as in the sail panels) it improves. They are also clean, loud, and accurate. Not as aggressive as the Kappas but brighter than the Pioneers.

Kicker KS series were great: powerful, smooth, good bass. But they changed the crossover and now run the woofer wide open. I haven’t heard the newest iteration, but for $250 I expect AT LEAST a $1 worth of copper in coil to filter the highs.

As a side note - the inductor placed on the woofer portion of the crossover can not only dictate the crossover point of the woofer low pass, but shape the low end response. It can attenuate the upper bass response giving “greater” low bad response (look up baffle step). While we are running basically infinite baffle setups (but not really…) virtually any and every speaker setup ibe designed or heard that runs zero baffle step sounds very lean or lacking in bass. That’s part of the level matching between woofer and tweeter; you want a few db of baffle step, reducing the woofer sensitivity rating, necessitating tweeter padding.

As in the case of the Kicker KS above, they can add extra copper in the woofer motor to shape the bass response to a small extent, but that’s not usually a text if taken in a case like this. And running it wide open has other issues, so the new version is off my list even though I’ve only listened to the previous version.

Sony ES - I have limited listening experience with these, but they were clean, clear, and clinicsal. Lean bass, soft highs, clear mids, but it a little edgy. Not rich or powerful like the Kickers, but clean.

Polk DB+ are a little more middle of the road with most everything: good bass but not super powerful, clean mids and highs but not as detailed, good volume but not LOUD like the Kappas.

Kenwood Excelons - these have a couple different versions even though they used to be one version (then a high end version). I found them to be similar to the Pioneers with a little more midbass like the Polk Monitors. I liked the highs a little better than the Monitors as well, but that is not-picky.

There are a few other component sets I’ve been eyeballing based off specs: JL C1’s (simpler crossover, but on both tweeter and woofer), MB Quart PS1-216 (two way 12db/oct crossover, phase plug, but magnesium dome tweeter can sound bright/harsh OR sparkly… or both), and Rockford Fosgate Power TS 652S (Power series are usually, well, powerful with great bass, solid mids, somewhat bright highs, and quite robust; this has a relatively low 3khz 12db/oct crossover - which is a good thing - that is bi-ampable).

Just my two cents on comps that are ~$200-300 and worth the additional price tag. Hope that helps.

 

Just a quick update:

I got a call from James today from tech12volts. Dude and his family has been battling a serious norovirus from the sounds of it. Hes going to put together a package deal for me and we will go from there. At minimum I think this will be a good place to start, and it may involve a HU upgrade at some point, but I just need to breath some life into this damn truck. Its pretty bad rn...

 

That's a good place to start. Lots of guys around here have been happy with Tech12Volts setups. Bummer to hear they are under the weather; a norrovirus typically resolves after a few days, but if his family is like ours, one kid gets it, then two days later the next kid gets it, then you get, then other kid, then your spouse, and so on and so on.