Tire Brand Decision - GENERAL VS MICHELIN VS COOPER?

Took your advice and went further down the ranbbit hole last night - Defenders are really good according to all reviews and probably actually the tire I need, but they do look lame. Wonder how they would look on the new wheels - maybe a sportier look.

 

I'm a fan of both General and Cooper

 

I really like Michelin tires.

The Defender LTX M/S2 will be a great tire. I wish they made it in 275/65/20.

I'm about to order a 2024 F150 and I will probably replace the factory tires with the Michelin Agilis CrossClimate tires in 275/65/20.

There are no comparisons between the Defender LTX M/S2 and the Agilis CrossClimate. My expectation is that the Defender LTX M/S2 rides nicer but the Agilis CrossClimate is 3PMSF certified.

 

I know the Defenders “look” boring but in use they will be superior to any of the AT tires mentioned for **on road** performance. Rain, ice, wintery mixes, and light to moderate snow included. They punch far far above the highway “classification ”.

 

And that is really all I will be is highway and towing the boat…probably have to think hard and try to embrace my inner “pops” and seriously consider rocking the Defenders.

 

Quatracs lasted me 5.5 years and 30k miles. They still had decent amount of tread left, but one tire wore abnormally due to alignment issue, plus I park the car on driveway, so tires on one side became dry rotted.

Investing heavily into compound and tread pattern research pays off. Even all-season Quatracs were better than all-terrain Yoko Geolander G015. Night and day. I got rid of a dedicated winter tire set, because those tires would cover most of everything we have in MA these days.

Wife's Sequoia gets LT-rated Pinzas next year. I love how quiet and grippy they are (in most conditions), but would need an extra assurance for long gravels road we going to hit in Quebec and Labrador. Or, maybe, P-rated. They look beefy enough on my Volvo.

"Vrede" and "stein" can't be Italian =)

 

The Michelins will last you forever, and if they don't, they are great at prorating the remaining tire tread warranty.

 

In all honesty look at it this way: it’s not your inner “Pops” but your inner realist. I applaud that. Nothing wrong with not using your truck off road. Nothing wrong if you do. Point being your truck your rules (free will use to be such a great quality in America but I digress…). Get what works for you but respectfully don’t buy into everything you read on the internet. Everyone’s needs and especially wants are different. I have gotten around many light snow /icy covered trails with nothing more than the Defenders and 4 wheel drive. I have never gotten stuck in a blizzard.

And what @Mattedfred is spot on…you’re not going to care what the tire looks like in that oh S&!@ moment.

 

I’m a realist. In reality I am not going mudding or rock crawling or overlanding in my Tundra. We can use my wives 4R if we ever get into that. I purchased the truck to tow. It’s function is to tow and equipping it with the best tires to do that is the goal.

Looking cool while doing that is a bonus….so maybe the wheels can take care of that. Also why I was looking at Coopers.

 

Get your yourself some nice high quality wheels. Many are lighter and will look much better than stock.

Along with the Michelin’s and a lighter wheel you will see a tangible difference, minor as it may be, in performance. Possibly a mpg gain as well.

I have access to ATV’s, a side by side, and love to mountain bike. I get my offroad fix through that

 

I put a set of these on. 3 peak mountain rating, been great in the snow and in wet conditions. Smooth ride and pretty quiet.

 

I remember those days…

Funny story…I always kept my vehicle’s extremely immaculate. So one day I picked up a buddy in my Tacoma to go work at our job at a lumberyard (college job). And he notices the interior and exterior has dirt/mud everywhere. The rear view was cracked lol. He kinda knew I was seeing a close family friend’s daughter. He then asks me “you took her to the “woods” you dirty bastard!”

He’s still one of my best friends in life…

 

Yea I got these…22.4 lbs. They look sporty (I like mag style-Im old school)

 

Send it!

 

I can attest to the Michelin Defender LTX M/S2 tires. I just got my second set this week at Costco. Very smooth riding tire (I don't like hearing tire rumble when driving), dependable, and long treadwear.

I've had Michelin LTX tires for years on my Yukon as well.

 

I stand corrected. They are Dutch! I guess it was the Pinza reference that was throwing me off there. I work with a lot of Mexicans and they always call pliers Pinzas, but I had also always thought of Pinza as an Italian term, especially since Italian and Spanish are sister languages. Well anyway, thanks for the correction. There has to be some sort of Italian connection there though……

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/italian-english/pinza#

And BTW I really do like those tires, these are the ones I got https://www.tiremart.com/vredestein-pinza-at-265-70r18-116t-owl-a-t-all-terrain-tire

 

I’ll take a look…

 

Your correct / pinza is pliers or tweezers in Italian (my wife is Italian)

 

Sorry, I am a dummy, I just noticed you posted them earlier. They are going to be nice!

 

I am sure those are great tires, but after the experience I had with the Michelin LTX Trail tires that came stock on the Tundra, I am soured. Really it hurt the brand because they lowered the standards so much I will have to think long and hard before I get another set of Michelins. Yes I know they are special manufacturer appointed tires but in my opinion that is a reputation killer to put your name on something so shitty. Interestingly enough, the trailer industry had a similar tire thing going on, and now you will see the more reputable manufacturers pointing out they put good tires on now instead of Chinese widow makers. Hopefully this will go into automobiles as well. You get only so many chances to prove your value. Michelin lost it for me. I don’t mean much to them I know, but my God those were embarrasingly awful tires.

 

That is happening with Falken right now too….the trash tires coming on some new trucks. Agree with you on this and it is almost like bait and switch.

 

If you’re not off-roading (or even if you are, but it's just mild stuff), the Defender is the best tire out there for the widest range of on-road conditions and weather. And they last FOREVER.

Problem for most people is, they don’t look tough.

I have often thought of putting a set of Defenders on my stock rims for winter driving and commuting and then putting on the BBS wheels with DuraTracs when we venture out on our dispersed camping trips. I just do the off-roading and camping stuff too much.

Any tire that comes on trucks from the factory sucks in some way. It should not sour us on the long-running non-OEM-commissioned tires that these tire companies put out.

The Michelins that came with my truck from the factory are just ok; they are quiet, but don't last very long, and their tread can capture and throw rocks. Even so, the Defender is still the best tire out there for 99% of truck and SUV drivers...

 

Everyone is doing that now though. It’s caught on like a wildfire with marketing departments. People think they are buying a quality product because a “name” is slapped on it.

Now more than ever, one has to be a more informed buyer.

 

I'm really interested in comparisons between the Defender LTX M/S2 and the Agilis CrossClimate. The word was the Agilis CrossClimate should have been the Defender LTX M/S's replacement. It seems to be a tire more focused on commercial use though.

 

I agree about the commercial status. The CrossClimate 2 would be a better comparison but they don’t make them in Tundra sizes. I use the CrossClimate 2 on my RAV4 and they are phenomenal as well.

 

I have the CrossClimate 2 on my beater 2008 Subaru Legacy GT. It's a great tire for those areas where a full winter tire may not make complete sense. The downside is the directional nature of the tread pattern which means you can't implement full tire rotations.

My go to tires for are:
1. Highway All Season: Michelin Defender LTX M/S2, Michelin Agilis CrossClimate, Continental TerrainContact H/T
2. Passenger ultra high performance All Seasons: Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4, Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06
3. Max performance summer tire: Michelin Pilot Sport 4S, Continental ExtremeContactSport 02
4. Track (endurance tire): Goodyear Eagle SuperCar3
5. Grand touring tire for the winter as an alternative to a winter tire: Michelin CrossClimate 2
6. Studless winter tire: Michelin X-Ice Snow

But lately, the following line-up has intrigued me for SUVs. I wish there were more reviews on these tires:
1. Goodyear Eagle Enforcer
2. Goodyear Eagle Enforcer All Weather

 

Have had excellent life from Defender IIs on 3 diff trucks now. All over 70K. Curious about this new Defender Platinum tho only avail in 265. Michelin says it outlasts the Defender LTX 2

 

I read an article about them in "Road and Track" or some other auto magazine years back and they talked about the siping and tread design and how it enhanced drivability. I ended up giving them a shot and I've stuck with them for about 20 years now! I live in Wyoming, they get their use. They've made slight changes to the pattern, but they've always looked about the same.

I wish they were more exciting to look at, especially on a truck. They could put lightning bolts or flames on the sidewalls at least or some kind of apex predator to make them fun

I like the Coopers and Generals, I'm just thoroughly sold on the Michelins now. They are definitely a "pawpaw" tire as far as appearance though, as people have mentioned.

 

The Michelin is the “better” tire as per UTQG.

but keep in mind your other 2 choices are winter rated, and Michelin is not. It’s a 3 season tire.

the Michelin will be my choice for my truck, and I run a dedicated winter tire.

and I agree with Euro, and Matt…. Looks don’t matter.

I don’t care what you drive, how you drive, and how much you paid to drive but tires are the most important piece of the puzzle. 4 contact points to the road that keep you (and me) safe.

couldn’t care less what they look like.

I’d go with Michelin and a dedicated winter tire. If no winter tire then consider an all weather from Nokian (if you can find them).

or consider an all weather BFG trail terrain t/a. Very good UTQG

 

+1. Agreed. There's really no replacement for a dedicated snow/winter tire on snow/ice. We have the following 3 vehicles and here's our winter setup:

1. 2016 X3 35i with Michelin X-Ice Xi3
2. 2014 335i RWD with Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4
3. 2008 Subaru Legacy GT with Michelin CrossClimate2

In the spring we switch to the following:

1. 2016 X3 35i with Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4
2. 2014 335i RWD with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S
3. 2008 Subaru Legacy GT with Continental ExtremeContactSport

We don't live in an area where there's more than 5 days a year where the roads are snow covered so when I revived my shitbox 2008 Subaru Legacy GT I moved away from the 335i RWD with Michelin X-Ice Xi3 winter tires because that car just won't get driven in the snow.

My SO and I track cars and once she advances into the Intermediate/Advanced run groups for BMW CCA and PCA HPDEs as a result of better car control skills (demonstrated on the skidpad), I think she'll be okay with all weather 3PMSF tires on her 4WD/AWD SUV.

I'm pretty comfortable with the limitations of a 3PMSF tire on my AWD Subaru for the winter conditions. It also seems like Maryland State Police uses all weather tires on their vehicles (ie. Goodyear Enforcer All Weather).

My concern with truck tires is that the wheel/tire assembly is heavy enough compared to passenger vehicles that I no longer want to move it from my 3 car garage to the basement for winter storage. I'm probably going to opt for a LRE Michelin Agilis CrossClimate tire which is 3PMSF rated for the F150.

Here's a video on how Michelin 3PMSF tires stack up against all seasons and dedicated winter tires:

https://youtu.be/421HkK4Nqss?si=QuCXOZsCxBmgioTY