Discount Tire Price Match Nokian Outpost AT

x2

 

Still no snow yet (which is weird, but I'm ok with it) but we should see some next week. So far, they balanced out well and are smooth - smoother than I would expect given the tread depth and pattern. They do make a little bit of noise starting about 45 but doesn't really get louder as you go faster. I know that sounds kinda weird, but it doesn't really. And the noise is a bit lower so you can easily confuse it for the exhaust or general road/wind noise at speeds above 60. The tone isn't bothersome; I'm pretty picky about tire noise so even though it is noticeable, it's not like the Toyo AT3's that had more of a buzz like a playing card on a kids bike tire, the Cooper AT3's that one pair was whisper quiet til 30k, the second set was more like a general roar that got louder with wear, or the LTX AT2's that also had a bit of both but more muted (my sequoia has the michelins right now and they are getting louder, which my Tundra didn't do for 10k more miles; granted, the tundra is louder all around so I might just notice it more in the sequoia). Again, it's kind of hard to explain but the exhaust and road noise get louder than the tire noise after 55 or 60 mph so I can't say they are a noisy tire. If you are cruising around town around 45 and take your foot off the gas, they coast smooth and quiet, so I'm not actually positive it's the tires making the noise around 45 mph.

Handling is great. The ride is softer than the coopers, but a little firmer than the Toyo's. It's right in the goldilocks zone which is just about perfect - compliant to a degree but still transmits great road feedback to the steering wheel without transmitting much of the small stuff to the seat. I've driven through a 15 mile section of twisties next to a reservoir where the speed limit is 55 but some corners are cautioned to 35 mph. It holds 50 through the sections without issue (as did the Coopers) and easily 60-65 mph on the milder corners. There are some big sweepers that turn tighter right before the exit and I didn't have any of those 'woah, back off the throttle and slow her down a bit' moments. I wasn't pushing them so I can't say where the traction limits are; the Coopers were very good in this respect and very predictably let you know when you were pushing close to the limit. Initially, these feel like they should behave similarly.

I also did about 50 miles of unpaved backroads the other day ranging from well groomed hard pack or gravel, to decent dirt road with big potholes and some exposed rocks. I let a few psi out of the tires for comfort, down to 32 psi from 42 that I typically run, and pushed the speeds up to 60+mph in some spots. THEY WERE PHENOMENAL. Much of the hard pack has gravel on the sides, so powering out of corners usually induces a little bit wheel spin, kicking in the traction control. Not once did the truck shut me down for loss of traction. I pushed around a few corners about as aggressively as the paved twisties earlier and the tires just hooked and went. Last time I took that same road in the same conditions, the Coopers would lose a bit of traction in the same corners or when you went too far in to the gravel on the side of the road, but it was, again, very predictable. And they didn't come close to completely losing it like the stock BFG Rugged Fails would, but the Nokians were CRAZY confidence inspiring in that situation. I was seriously impressed.

Cruising around town they are comfortable and non-intrusive. Handling is still great for the round abouts and corners.

So far, I have no regrets about purchasing them and really have no complaints.

I only have 5 or 600 miles on them so far, but I'm sure they will get a good workout after Thanksgiving; I will be hauling my trailer loaded close to 7k lbs through some hilly terrain to a place I'm sure is going to be snowy, slushy, sloggy, muddy mess. The last three times I've been there in the last year, I've had to use 4wd to get my truck moving through the mostly flat area. Last time, I wound up dropping a tire in to a hidden post hole while letting another truck and trailer through. Landed right on the skid plate and lower control arm. I had to turn off the traction control and let it dig it's way out with some extra throttle.

 

Here are some pics from the back roads.

https://www.tundras.com/threads/sometimes-you-should-take-the-back-road-home.133340/#post-3385113

 

On the dirt roads, were they chucking rocks? That's the usual issue I get with ATs, as most do. The Wildpeak AT3Ws I had on my Tundra were great tires in all but terrible mud, and even then they were good for an AT, but like most they were slinging gravel pretty regularly. I kind of expect it with the tread, but the Falkens were nowhere near as bad and BFG KO2s I had on a previous truck. Just wanting your opinion on these ones if you don't mind.

 

They hold fewer rocks than the Coopers did (those things would steal rocks from the other lane and throw them around) but pick up some slightly bigger ones. Overall, improved vs the Coopers. The LTX AT2 just hoarded tiny pebbles an occasionally let a medium sized one slip out of it's grasp.

 

I'm less concerned with brining rocks home than I am having my tires angrily sling then against the side of my truck. Did you notice a lot of rock slinging going down the gravel roads in your pics?

 

Not nearly as much as the Coopers did. Actually, very little now that I think about it. And the rocks that do stick for a bit, tend to stick closer to the middle of the tread so they ping off the inside of the wheel well or the underside of the running boards instead of the side of the truck. The coopers picked them up everywhere but threw a few down the side of the truck, even with stock offset wheels. I think the larger and more varied void sizing, along with a little bit more compliant carcass are helping the nokians to avoid picking up as much to begin with.

 

I found this reviewer comparing the nAT on a snow track to a few other Nokian tires including a snow tire.

 

Though it is true that a true winter/snow tire is going to out perform an AT in winter, the implication that an AT is somehow not good for winter depends heavily on the driver. Sure, you have to drive slower, but you should be doing that with winter conditions anyway. The same way 4WD or AWD doesn't magically erase the weather conditions, neither does the winter/snow rubber. It'll handle it better, but an idiot will still wind up in the ditch regardless of drive system or tire used.

 

I pick tires based on how cool they look/make my truck look.

 

I hear all the cool kids buy third gens. 2.5 gens r laaaaaaaame… You should get rid of yours. I know a guy that can help you out of it…

 

I think he was implying that while most AT’s are a compromise tire, the Nokian nAT did exceptionally well in the snow as he compared it to a true winter tire along with two other tire types as bench marks.


Winter snow traction is achieved by packing snow in the tread; that snow then sticks to the snow on the road and you achieve traction. AT’s typically have (relatively) larger tread voids and are typically designed to try and evacuate whatever is in them, which makes it difficult for the snow to pack in like it would on a smaller void type tire or winter tire.

Ice traction is achieved with lots of biting edges. Sipes and a soft, compliant tread compound are key here, as well as a well designed tread pattern and void ratio - all of which are not typically an AT’s strong suit which have thicker, chunkier, stiffer tread blocks to beige the gap between traction, longevity, and tire noise. Modern Silica compounds have helped many a tire achieve better winter traction as the silica creates micro edges in the rubber to grip the road, regardless of the tread block shape (though, the tread design can still help or hinder traction a great deal). As the tire wears, new silica is exposed to maintain that traction, despite the rubber compound hardening over time due to heat cycles and weather. The siping allows tread blocks to flex and move and expose more surface are and biting edges to an otherwise large tread block (large tread blocks are typically sturdier, as well as easier and cheaper to make).

Anyways, I interpreted his review to say ‘I can’t believe how good these AT tires are in the snow - where they should be mediocre at best!’

I would almost never run any of the other three tire types because of where I live and what I do with my truck. Winter tires are better in the snow and ice but our winters can be predictably sporadic - we always get piles of snow and slush and ice and cold weather, but sometimes it shows up in October and stays until April with lows of -36F around February (like last year) and sometimes it dumps snow for a week in November, melts or evaporates, for a few weeks, dumps some, gets cold then warms up a bit, then does whatever it feels like doing. Highway tires are quieter and usually have better tread wear but they are also a no-go because I venture off the paved roads.

I would also never run a mud tire on my primary vehicle for similar reasons - they absolutely suck in snowy, icy conditions for to their even larger tread voids, hard tread compounds, and minimal siping. Yes, they have improved much since I last ran them, but they are still a far cry from the snow manners of a good AT, IMO. I’ve looked at hybrid tires as well, but I’m not sure they would do well for me.

So AT tires are perfect for me. It’s awesome to see so many companies pushing to improve the compromise tire to be less of a, well, compromise.

 

100% this.

 

Winter showed up this weekend and dropped a couple of inches of snow. Went from cold and snowy to slightly warmer and breezy, then just above freezing but still snowing and quite gusty and drifting snow, back down below freezing and windy and icy. Then snowed it some more. So, including my quick jaunt to a different state last week with a couple inches of crunchy frozen snow crystals over loose dirt, I saw most road conditions we see in a winter in just a few days, with the exception if deep drifted snow (I remember busting through 35” of fresh snow fall in high schools one morning as they only canceled school at -20F or 36+ inches of snow in 24 hours; half the school didn’t show up that day. Or for a couple days..).

These tires don’t disappoint.

I really can’t compare them to other tires that I’ve run until I get a winter season on them or at least a solid month or two, but… I remember my LTX AT2’s doing well in the snow, the Cooper AT3’s being marginally better then the Michelins in some conditions but very close in most situations. I still run LTX AT2’s on the sequoia (with 8 or 9/32’s of tread left) and these Nokians were decidedly better than the Michelins. Like, I thought the sequoia tires were at 4/32’s and ready to be replaced kind of better. My wife commented on how slick the roads were in the morning; she had it in 4wd (unlocked center diff) and I didn’t really notice while being in 2wd. The icy conditions later in the day allowed me to break the tires loose, but they were very predictable and still provided traction when broken loose. So far, I’m super happy with them.

Then winter decided to play games and it rained last night so most of the snow disappeared. Tonight will be wet and icy. But I’m not complaining. I’ve been procrastinating winter for a good month at least (well, I got the sprinklers and yard ready, just my brain and bones aren’t ready for it..) so I should take advantage of the unseasonably warm weather even if my kids were bemoaning they brutal demise of their snowmen melting in to obscurity..

 

Another little update.

More snow, more cold, more wind, more power and the tires are even more confidence inspiring. Just got the whipple installed this week in time for some more wacky weather. Little bit of snow, lots of wind, and no problems finding traction. I found a break in the snow after they had plowed the roads and pushed the throttle progressively more until, to my surprised elation, I found the tires to support full throttle in 4wd on wet roads without skipping a beat. Tonight, on the other hand, there is a few inches of fresh, unplowed snow on the roads and they still stick great, even if it is easy to break traction with all the extra power. But am normal, reasonable throttle input they grip better than my previous tires. I am still impressed with the Nokians.

 

5k Mile Update

IMO, these are the best tires I’ve ever driven on.

More wacky weather with snow, warmer weather for January and February making for some mud, towing trailers, and recovering vehicles. Twice I had to access a property with mud up to the frame rails; the tires just churned through with very little wheel spin needed to find traction and pull me through. Drove through two snow storms right before they closed the road for three days and had zero problems finding traction on the highway and unpaved back roads. Pulled a few trailers around and the tires responders well to some additional inflation while still remaining comfortable. Last night, I ended up knocking some air out of tires and dragging a friends trailer out of a ditch and down a snow mobile trail in several feet of packed snow that had been broken through by two other trucks and stuck. Backed up the trail in one go, dragged the trailer back in one go. I’m getting the tires rotated and balanced right now and they appear to be wearing well at 15 and 16/32’s.

So far, here are the only negatives:

- The tires are a little noisier than the outgoing coopers. BUT, the noise is more broad spectrum than a specific hum or buzz, so it isn’t grating. Also, it doesn’t get louder proportional to the speed - it’s not perceived to be twice as loud at 80MPH as it is at 40MPH. So it doesn’t bother me. It starts around 40 or 45 but you can only hear it when coasting at that speed.

- Towing heavy, the tires aren’t as rigid feeling as the coopers (which, with enough air, felt like riding on hockey pucks). I had them up at 65 psi the other day where I probably would have run 60 psi in the coopers. However, they were still quite comfortable at 65 psi with the weight I was hauling, so that’s still a win.

- They appear to be wearing well, but maybe a little faster than I’d expect. With most of my other tires, the first 5k miles knocks off 2/32’s then it’s about 2 or 3/32’s every 10k. So I’m not seeing excessive wear - especially considering the heavy throttle launches the tires have been seeing on occasion. The Whipple makes it easier to drive in a more spirited manner, which accelerates tire wear. Even if these wear fast, that’s an acceptable trade off to me. They also have a tread wear warranty, so combined with the good pricing, I’m really not concerned about treadwear. I’d rather wear out a set of exceptional tires in 30k than drive crappy tires for 60k. My philosophy on tires.

So what makes me say they are the best tire I’ve ever run?

Simply put - TRACTION. EVERYWHERE.

Snow, mud, ice, dry roads, wet roads, everywhere. They don’t care about a foot or more of snow. They are happy to churn through mud and muck almost like they are a set of mud terrains - definitely better than any other AT tire I’ve had. Slushy, crappy roads and they are surefooted and very predictable. Icy roads are very predictable with a surprising amount of grip. If you do manage to lose traction, you can feel them immediately grabbing for more traction instead of just spinning. Wet roads, I’ve been able to break traction but not spin the tires, if that makes sense. On dry roads, the tires have supported full throttle supercharged launches in 2wd without spinning. Granted, my truck is setup with only a couple hundred pound front to rear weight bias, and my springs and shocks are setup to squat just a bit on those launches, so weight transfer is MUCH better than a stock unloaded truck would be. Still, these just hook and go.

Ride is more comfortable than the coopers with good, quick steering feedback and a very accurate but still smooth bump compliance. They don’t feel floaty or vague but aren’t harsh either - all while maintaining a smoother ride than any of my previous tires. And they are on the lighter end of the scale for AT tire weight, which means handling, braking, and steering are improved over a heavier tire.

All in all, I’m very pleased with these tires. We will see how they hold up long term, but I’m already convinced these will replace my Michelin AT2’s on my sequoia - probably sooner rather than later, and in a p rated version.

 

10k Update

Had the tires rotated and balanced yesterday. Not much was needed in the way of balancing. Treadwear is at 14-15/32's and evenly worn. Felt nice and smooth pulling away from the tire shop - almost like they had let a little air out of the tires, but they were at the same pressures I brought them in at. Luckily, they made a note last time and actually followed it! If not, no hurt feelings - I have an air compressor, I was just pleased to see that they read and followed their notes. So what little rebalancing they did improved the ride that I already had not complaints about.

Traction is still great. Noise is on par with new or newer tires. No complaints there. I'm still very happy with the tires.

 

Man, I'm looking at these again for the new truck, and the price is even worse now.

 

No joke. I put a set on the Sequoia two months ago and the p275/65r18’s were more expensive than the Lt275/65r18’s I put on the tundra less than a year ago. They are offered in more sizes now, though, albeit with higher pricing on all of them.

I had Discount Tire price match Simple Tire that offered a 15% discount. DT did some funny math and didn’t quite match it correctly, but it brought the price down $30 or $40 a tire.

Still very happy with the tires.

 

Ended up getting a puncture last week. Picked up a rusty old nail or piece of metal through the center tread that took a day to bleed off enough air to trip my tire pressure monitor light. Good thing the light turned on, too, because it was passenger front - the only tire I don't see before I jump in the truck. Of course, I found it on a Saturday at 6:10 in the evening and all the tire shops close to me were closed. Got if fixed Monday morning and the kid at the tire shop inspected the tires before working on the vehicle. Unfortunately, they are wearing fairly quickly. I'm at little more than 17k miles on the set and they are down to 9-11/32's from 18/32's initial depth.

Honestly, I'm not terribly surprised that they are wearing quickly. The truck is heavy, I tow often, and the SC isn't doing them any favors (though I've started to tame my right foot..). I did have two sets of tires almost make it to the stated mileage warranty, but I don't buy tires based on a mileage warranty; I prioritize traction and ride over mileage and these tires have delivered heaps of traction. I guess we will see how far they make it. I might be taking advantage of a mileage warranty next year.

One feature of these tires is a treadwear indicator built in to the tread. It's basically just different depth of siping in the tire tread that wears off as you accumulate miles. Apparently, it's pretty accurate, too.

 

Always hard to predict the treadlife of a tire based on the early miles. Some tires wear really quickly to 50% tread and then just seem to turn into iron. I'm almost ready for tires on on my 2021 Pro and planning on running 285/75-18 and this is one of the tires I'm considering...

 

Well poop…

Scheduled a tire rotation for today. They pulled off the back tire and found this turd buried in the inside sidewall of my back tire. Buried to the rings. I was surprised it wasn’t sticking back out the sidewall by the rim.



Nokian offers a Pothole Protection with the tires (1 year free replacement, 2 year pro rated). I’ve had the tires for 11 months or so, meaning free replacement. But… (there’s already a but…) the tire shop called Nokian for a replacement tire: no tires available in that size in the entire country. Their next production run for that size is scheduled more than month out.

I need the truck to tow and haul everyday so I guess I’m getting new tires. I can’t wait two months for a tire. They have some Ultraterrains in stock so I guess that’s what I’m trying now. They also have some KO3’s but they are $60 more a tire and 5 lbs heavier. I don’t need to be the Guinea pig for those.

Oof. Oh well. I have to be grateful that I scheduled the service (especially since it’s a couple hundred miles early) and they found the nail. I just ran down the freeway 80 mph for an hour this morning and am pulling a fully loaded trailer 400 miles round trip tomorrow. So as lame as the situation is and as annoyed as I am with Nokian, it was fortuitous.

 

Well, long story short, but after reaching out to Nokian, they were able to dust off a few cobwebs and find another tire somewhere. Discount Tire was able to swap my tires back on with the new good one in the back. I already purchased another set of tires but I don't like them one bit, which is why I had them put the Nokians back on.

Some things to note, as I was able to drive back to back comparisons between the Nokians and another reputable brand tire:

THE NOKIANS ARE JUST AS GOOD AS I THOUGHT. MAYBE EVEN BETTER.

The new set was loud. Like LOOOUUUDDDD to the point the they drummed out my exhaust in many cases. Towing was brutal as the were even louder. And corning... Eww. It was always a guessing game as to whether or not the wheel was pointed the right direction and the tires would follow. Once the Nokians were remounted you would think I was in a race car. Or race truck... steering was nigh-on nimble; accurate and predictable. Fast even. Wow, what a difference.

 

I just had a set of the Nokian's put on my work F150. I've got about 1,000 miles on them and liking them so far. SL rated 285/70R17, they seem to be happy at 34 psi cold.

Plan to put a set on my tundra when I do tires next.

 

Well, things just got interesting....

22k miles on the tires and Old Man Winter decided to show up. I'm not complaining that he was fashionably late this year, so don't misunderstand. But I was also unfashionably late in finishing up a few things. So I got to deal with this ball of fun this weekend. I logged 1200 miles since Tuesday, 800 of which were in and out of weather - half of that in 4wd. Friday, roads looked this:



Sunday, they turned in to this, with 40-50mph crosswinds for the better part of 140 miles:



And by Monday, this:






Add in my camp trailer, another foot or more of snow in some some places with drifts twice or thrice that, and now it's a party!




The tires handled it all with aplomb. Great traction, no issues handling the wonderfully wintry weather and road conditions, confidence inspiring. Around the time I took the picture above, I noticed something strange going on with my 4wd: it was making a strange noise that I was worried would turn in to a very difficult problem for me, being in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night, in the middle of a blizzard. So I switched it to 2wd and soldiered on. In the snow. With a trailer. Up and down hills. A few of which are 10% grades. On roads that had not been plowed...

While ascending one of those climbs, I caught up to the semi truck rather quickly considering how slow I was going. Turned out to be the UPS guy pulling a double, moving about 3 MPH while spinning his tires. Poor sucker, but he was almost at the top. I'm pretty sure he made it. I hope he made it. But maybe that's why I have seen a box on my doorstep yet today...

Anyways, a 3 hour trip turned in to 4.5 hours of laughing my head off about how bad the roads got and how dumb I was for pulling a travel trailer through it. But it was the middle of the night so I was more worried about getting ambushed by Bambi than other drivers (though I found a few or three, amazingly..). And doing half of it in 2WD - Wow!

I was ready to write another glowing review of how well they performed (seriously, these are amazing tires for my use case!) and less than 12 hours later, this happened driving around town at a leisurely 35 mph after towing one of my enclosed trailers around all day...






In the words of the infamous Johnny McEnroe - YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!?

Then I realized I should be more grateful than hateful. I just spent days in the middle of nowhere in sub-freezing temperatures with virtually non-existent cell service, working myself to exhaustion, then made the decision to drive home by myself in the middle of a blizzard (it was honestly the best weather window in several days, despite the poor road conditions) with the truck loaded and a trailer in tow, then spent the rest of the day working out of another trailer on all of 3 hours sleep, just to have a catastrophic blowout in the middle of town when the weather warmed up and sun may have even peeked out from behind the clouds...

Ya, that is the absolute BEST case scenario for blowing a tire. I can't seriously be upset about it. I can't even imagine how bad this could have been on my way back this morning. I'm confident and comfortable driving on snowy roads, but yesterday was about at my comfort limit - like standing close to the cliff's edge but not right on it: close enough to know what could happen from a momentary lapse in judgement.

So I laughed and went digging in the back seat for my factory jack and tool kit, pulled out ye old M18 mid torque gun, and dropped the spare tire. Luckily for me, I practiced dropping the spare tire once, just to see if it could be done. In 218k miles, this truck has never seen the spare anywhere but tucked comfortably between the frame rails.

I also got a chuckle about the miniature yeti nest the greeted me as the tire dropped down. And, as I should have expected, my spare tire was low on pressure - 17 PSI to be exact. Milwaukee inflator to the rescue!




I called a customer and rescheduled with them, changed the tire, and ran the blown tire over to my Discount Tire. The parking lot was completely full, but after a short wait in line, one of the guys behind the desk recognized me and came out to look at the tire. He was utterly surprised to see the blowout. He will call Nokian in the morning and get their take on it. His take: total fluke, or road debris. Leaning on the former. Either way, I'm sure they will take care of me.

This is the first tire I've ever had fail, so that's got me humming and hawing a little. But I sill love the tires. Traction is A+. And to be fair, who knows what was hiding under all the snow earlier..

 

Nokian replied and wouldn't warranty the blowout, saying they couldn't determine whether or not it was from road debris or the tire itself failing. I was a little disappointed to hear that. But DT did offer me a pro-rated exchange on the tire. I had a pay a few bucks but got a new one of less than half price that I will use as a spare, I guess. It already showed up, too, which was utterly surprising as I was expecting to wait a month for it.

Why use it as a spare? Because I had some 285/65R18 Nokians mounted up instead! I'll post up a pic or two when it's light outside, but they look just about identical with a little more sidewall bulge.

Now, what to do with the four extra tires?? Well, fate is tempting me so I might have a place to use all eight tires if I can get somebody (or somebodies) to play ball.