Crazy Prices

Completely? I am sure that the richest manufacturer in the world is smarter than that. I would venture to say plenty came from other, Lexus brand, parts. Hell they use the old Saftey Sense on a complete re-design. So what else is old supply? Not to mention Toyota will makeup the tooling in the long run since there refreh is so long.

 

By the way, I am being generous at the $52k. The dealers here as we all know won't move off msrp so it's $52k+++. Which makes it even more of a reason why an SR5 isn't worth it, to me obviously. Your opinion will vary by MPG.

 

Ok, semantics are fun. What number would make you happier for re-design? 80%? 90%? And yes they will make up the tooling in the long run. Guess how they do that? (it isn't by lowering prices per unit)
Do you believe that Toyota's costs also increased? Or was everything they're putting into the new vehicle completely unaffected by inflation/supply shortages/ pandemics/ financial tomfoolery?

Yeah, that I totally agree with. But perceived value is subjective, obviously. Numbers are quite objective. So, I was mating my reply to his objectivity.

 

It's isn't by price gouding. At least that's the way I see it. Look it it plane and simple to me. My 2020 was $39k OTD. My dealer keeps sending me email on a 2023 SR5 at $52,526+/- . Add $1000 dealer fee add $3676 for taxes add $250 for tag add $250 for dealer BS. That's $57,702. You want to pay almost $58k for a SR5 then be my guest, not my money. Me, I am smarter with my money and once again there is nothing in the 3rd gen that makes an SR5 worth $58k. There I have said my peace.

 

I think you should inhale and exhale slowly a couple of times, count to 10, and then point out where I said I'm in the market for any 3rd gen trim or where I would consider purchasing a 2023 SR5 for $58k. Or where I said I think it's a prudent financial decision. Or where I said it was fair. Or where any other of these fantasy straw men remarks are coming from.

Dealer shenanigans are a completely separate issue unrelated to the $6k price increase for a re-designed in-demand vehicle - which is what I was addressing. You asked where $6k came from. I answered with very basic manufacturing economics.

Finally, so as not to unnecessarily crowd the E.D. of whatever city you reside, WE'RE ON THE SAME SIDE HERE. I don't like all of the funny business going on either with vehicle pricing.

 

Average transaction price wise, a $58k in 2023 is about the same as $39k in 2030. $58k vs average transaction price of $48k. $39k vs average transaction price of $30k. Yes a steep inflation curve past few years but $39k will not get you any truck now other than a stripped down mid size

 

If I had to spend 80-90K on a vehicle it wont be a truck , Im struggling with auto prices my brain goes on a fritz when I see them…2019 I wouldn’t pay more than 50K for a car, this year was 60K…hope to drive them till Im dead or buy used.

 

Good to know we agree on the dealer BS.

 

This is the problem I have. I don't care about inflation. To me inflation is made up by the government and the elites for their own selfish reasons. To me it still doesn't change the fact that a 1/2 ton or any other vehicle should cost what it cost in today's market. The same goes for houses, RV, boats, you name it. There is a thread going on right now about the strike and UAW. The CEO's of of GM for instance gets paid 30million a year. That's all possible by selling over priced vehicle, obviously other things. But then she has the balls to say in not so many words that her employees are beneath her. And I understand the UAW workers because while the medium wage is 57k+/- the average home is now 500k, college is 100k, vehicles are 50k. So you see inflation is a shit show equation when you take into account that the medium income has only gone 37k in 43 years. Yet everything else has gone up 10 fold just because and I am supposed to play along.

 

Actually best vehicle to buy for $80-90k is a diesel heavy duty truck. I owned one for 8 years and 120k miles and sold it for 75 percent. I had Uncle that sold a one off Cummins 3500 mega cab
w/ 5 speed for what he paid after 10 years. This was pre COVID. Sure there are some 6-7 year old diesels that made money in 2021-2022. I would not spend that much on a 1500 because there will be less value retention.But buying $90k German vehicle is a quick way to loose $60k + in 5 years.

Do wonder if the truck pricing is entering the pricing level if you can afford an used one you are loaded enough to just buy a new one. That is what kills the kraut burners on value retention

 

You are being a smug douche, but I’ll entertain the question with a short answer.

I am not, and have no desire to be in the automotive manufacturing business. So I am unwilling to invest any time, or capital beyond that required to acquire a vehicle through retail sale into achieving the above goal. Furthermore the regulatory hurdles to achieve it are more or less insurmountable making any investment of time or capital a waste of both. Lastly there is basically no market demand for the product I am describing even if we could wave a magic wand: aka spend billions bribing politicians to undo many many emissions laws and vehicle safety laws and make the product legal. If consumers wanted a basic work truck there’s a good chance trucks would still look like what I just described.

You of course know this as well as anyone, hence your kind of smug douchey post.

 

Ahhh, entitlement, you magnificent bastard.

X is impossible, but I want it, therefore someone else should invest the capital to make it for me. At the price I want to pay. Harrummph.

 

No.

The situation is: I would like to have “x”, under “y” conditions.

“y” conditions are not realistic, and “x” is not important enough to me to invest beyond “y” conditions. That’s not entitlement, that’s an observation of supply, price, and demand.

You keep using this word “entitlement” but I don’t think you know what it means. I don’t think I am entitled to anything beyond god given rights, the US Constitution etc.

 

I recently deleted my reddit account and kind of missed online feuding. thanks for filling the tiny hole in my life gang.

 

Almost. I used it once, btw.
Your “Y” conditions aren’t necessary to build yourself an “X” plenty of shops build one-off custom vehicles without having to bribe and invest billions in Washington to build a truck. I wasn’t suggesting you become a “big 3” sized automaker.

 

I believe I was the other person who used the word "entitlement". It was in response to the guy who blamed his low wages and inflating prices on "rich people".

Matt

 

Lol. If you are referring to me as being the the low wage guy and blaming rich people, I can back my low wage anytime you want.

 

Your words, not mine.

Would it make you happy if the new Tundras cost the same as your 2020 and your house was still worth $235K?

 

Once again, would you like me to prove my low wages. You come on here running your mouth about me and now that I call you out you back down. Where did I say that I make a low wage? Apparently your reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. Let me know if I use to big a words for you so I can clear it up for you better. Now run along and let the adults have a conversation.

 

lol, we are not taxed due to capitalism, we are taxed due to large and ever-expanding government. From healthcare to schools, anytime the government is involved then prices increase. The more welfare handed out directly results in an increase for those goods and services combined with higher fuel prices you have uncontrolled inflation. Really not the intention of this forum and this thread but yes most Americans are driving 10-20 year old vehicles into the ground since they are not going to pay inflated prices. Local Ford dealers are back to offering 10k off MSRP but Toyota doesn't and won't have to do this. They have a built-in demand for their products. In a few months as the plants are shut down for the UAW demands then you will see MSRP prices yet again. I do find it funny that the UAW has turned on their favorite political organization when they want higher wages and better insurance.

 

No need to get your panties in a wad, but you did complain about wages and blame rich people for inflating prices. Then, in the same post you admit your house has almost tripled in value. Can rich people take credit for that, as well?

Matt

 

Ah got your meaning now I think.

In my case “y” conditions for the product described would be widely available for sale at a dealership and covered by manufacturer warranty where said product could also be serviced or have warranty work performed.

Mind you I know something like what I describe would be dirty ass expensive because of the hardware quality I’m looking for, but that would have enough value to me to part with up to say $105K if a 20 year service life before major component replacement, given appropriate maintenance intervals of course.

I’ll venture a guess most consumers are distinctly not interested in the product I described at the price point I guesstimate it would land at. The average truck buyer is not the Toyota truck loving, tight fisted weirdo who wants to not be bothered needing to buy a new truck or expect major maintenance for 20 years. People willing to spend $100K on a vehicle want gadgets, and lots of fancy stuff. Not a utilitarian rig made out of materials designed to last a long long time as the #1 priority.

Probably safe to say that even Toyota would not really want all their customers to be like that either.

 

Here let me help you understand a little better.The medium wage is 57k+/- the average home is now 500k, college is 100k, vehicles are 50k. Back in 1980 the medium income was 21k+/- college was 10k, home around 60k+/-. So you see, wages haven't kept up to inflation. That's my point. And yes rich people pretty much run American. It's pretty easy to look up who owns who.

 

Just replied and saw this. I will add that, hell no I don't want my house to triple. It raises my taxes, my flood insurance and homeowners insurance. Alone with that make the area more desirable and leads to higher car insurance. If I was getting ready to sell by all means. I ha e neighbors that are always jumping for joy that the values are up yet are going to be here another 20-30 years. It does absolutely nothing for them. I never understood this thinking, still don't. Unless your ready to sell like I said.

 

A quick search shows the median home price in the US is $416K as of Q2 2023. Median US household income is stated at $81,454.

That does seem to represent a problem for a first time homebuyer for sure, given mortgage rates that buyer is looking at a mortgage payment each month of probably somewhere around $2500 or more depending on what their escrow looks like. Once you account for that household monthly net income things are going to be tight.

 

Totally. Or there’d be 20 on every lot. I’d probably lean that way somewhat, but seat heaters are pretty awesome around here.

 

I almost never use them in any vehicle, it gets idiotically cold here in the winter but seat heaters just don’t do it for me. A heated steering wheel has some merit though.

 

Place I looked showed 57k. 81k sound better but still not keeping up. Saw today that in California only 16% of the population can buy a medium priced home that start at 830k and you have to make 203k to afford it after you put 20% down. Unbelievable the times we are living in.

 

I just have them stay on when I remote start the truck. I’d love a HSW. I’m just slumming it though.

 

On the subject of seat heaters, I had a chance to ride in a car once with sheep skin seat covers. Aside from having fur covered seats that look kind of ridiculous, I have to say that is a damn fine seating surface. Not cold, not too warm. Very very nice.