a.b.s. sucks…

i have almost died about 3 times this year because of the abs in my truck. going very slow, little to no ice, tried to stop and had 0 breaking pressure and went right through a 4 lane red traffic light. almost got hit. people were honking and i couldn’t stop. happened again at a stop sign about a week later. now it happened when i hit mud today and it almost sent me into a brick wall. i was going maybe 6mph. what the hell. if i was able to use my breaks ??? I COULD HAVE STOPPED. ALL THE TIMES. does anyone else have this issue ???

 

That happened to my ABS a few years ago. I tried cleaning the tone ring and sensors even carried around a 10mm (I Believe it was that size) to adjust the sensor bolt. Got tired of messing around with it and pulled the fuses for the ABS and was done with it. Sorry but no solution but good luck.

 

It would be nice if there was an override switch for it for just such a situation. It’s really only good for a high speed panic stop. Most people know how to pump their brakes otherwise.

 

Was it working any better in the past or was it always like this?

 

Yep, on here we call it "ice mode" and you can read about it if you search threads of some of our high-speed off-road guys... SGU or Bastrds; they've chronicled it in their 2nd gen trucks.

I experienced it in my 1st gen several times on one trip, so I pulled the ABS fuse and never put it back. I keep it in a zip lock baggie in the ashtray so I don't lose it. Truck gets smogged with the ABS light on the dash-- no problem. But no, I've not read about anyone finding the for-sure cause or a for-sure fix.

I don't know how old you are-- which only matters related to whether you have experience vehicles pre-ABS. You've got to rapidly "pump" the brakes in emergency situations when you don't have ABS-- which is exactly what you don't want to do with a vehicle that has working ABS.

If you decide to pull your ABS fuse, and need to know what it looks like and where to find it, let us know. None of us and no mechanic will ever "recommend" this, but I decided it was better than risking dying. And no one has found a fix, that I know about.

 

I will Highly recommend pulling the abs fuse. Abs is a scam. Literally kills people and the NTSB just shrugged and said..IDK, and moved on. Its particularly bad in our trucks. There is no fix, its doing what it was designed to do.....its just what it was designed to do is stupid.

Like others, I pulled my abs fuse and never looked back. I only remember the near pants crapping situation I had the first time It happened to me when I see a post like this.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQdtayz525A

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-12-12-mn-8435-story.html

 

"Here is a fact that catches a lot of motorists by surprise: if the vehicle we are driving is equipped with ABS brakes, our stopping distances on ice and snow will be longer than if our vehicle did not have ABS brakes. In older vehicles and less expensive vehicles, ABS can lengthen our stopping distances by up to 50 per cent compared to non-ABS


https://www.wheels.ca/news/abs-brakes-can-add-to-stopping-distances

 

Brake pumping has its time and place. That's the same place you may want ABS. Thats not the problem and not what we are talking about.

In my particular case, going down my road in the winter, the ABS kicked in and my truck started ACCELERATING, because the ABS refused to engage the brakes hard enough to stop me, and sine it was a hill, gravity was pulling me faster and faster, and ABS was perfectly happy to just let me speed up. It was one of most frightening things that ever happened to me in a car. 'Driving for the conditions' does not apply.

The problem comes when you are trying to STOP the vehicle on surface with compromised traction.

Driving for conditions is not the problem....as the OP mentioned, and has many others have found out, ABS is unsafe at any speed. Where it particularly tries to murder you is usually at a few miles per hour, on a bad road. Go to fast, and nothing matters, but again, that is not what we are talking about.

Heck, even I would be okay with ABS if it only activated over 30 miles per hour or something like that.

A locked tire is the best possible stopping mechanism on snow, gravel, or any other 'loose' surface.

ABS robs you of that ability, when you need it most.

'Modern cars' (of the 90s 2000s) are designed to survive crashes, not to AVOID crashes. The powers that be (insurance companies) decided that its safer to have cars crash straight into things, or fly straight off the road, than to possibly lose control from locked brakes and crash in an unpredictable vector.

I can even kinda see their point, its easier to design a safer car, in a crash, if it always crashes the same way, even if you get more total crashes.

But they where wrong....by the numbers...not just my opinion.

 

Yep, it's terrifying. I had it happen twice on a modified T2S trip in '21. Tried to figure out what I did wrong, the first time. The second, I was getting off a freeway exit. I never wait 'til the last to brake, but, no matter, half way down the ramp, the brakes were just gone. Pumping doesn't work with ABS so they stayed gone. Cruised on through the stop sign at the bottom. On level ground, the braking re-engaged. Luckily, there was no cross-traffic or other vehicles in front of us, but it was terrifying. I had the same adult passenger for the entire trip, with me for both failures. We recounted our experiences to the SGU guys in attendance, who confirmed this was the "ice mode" they'd experienced. I pulled the fuse before the long drive home.

I took it to my ASE mechanic, who's not failed to find a fix for every other problem I've brought in over multiple decades, and he and his team were not able to figure it out 'because it's intermittent'. I don't plan to sell the truck, so it probably won't go back in again.

 

Pulled my fuse and dash light.

don’t think you can pull a fuse on the 05-06. Not sure on the 04.

 

This I don't know. I only know about it happening to Toyota friends... but that's maybe because I mostly only do truck stuff with Toyota friends.

It's never happened to me in other vehicles, but I've only ever owned 2 new vehicles, a '98 Passat and my 2017 Tundra. A lot of newer work vehicles, but always pavement driving. I think @Aerindel may be right about it happening when there's a bit of loose road surface... Edit: or with older vehicles (for which ABS was a newer technology)... but if true, that off-ramp had nothing obvious.

I think @KevinK did a thread on "ice mode" on here at one point.

 

I was never going faster than about 15-20 miles per hour when it happened to me. Three times, because I thought the first time was a fluke, after the second time and pulling my ABS fuses, I stuck them back in the next summer just to make the light go away on a long trip and forgot to take the out again in the winter until the first snowy day and the problem repeated.

Each time with me it was during light snow, going downhill on a dirt road. I would step on the brake, the truck would start to slow, and then the ABS would cut in and I would lose almost all braking.

My theory was that because ABS matches all wheels, to the wheel with the lest grip, that as soon as a back tire slips, it lowers the braking power of the front wheels, with all the weight on them, to match the unloaded, easily slipping rear.

 

I was under the impression that ABS is supposed to give you better control or at least keep things more under control, when you’re locked and sliding you don’t have much control. Kind of a nanny feature for people who don’t know how to drive well to begin with.

 

That's right. But when it stops functioning sporadically, the resulting loss of brakes is dangerous.

 

Well, don't let it stop functioning. Keep up on the maintenance and don't modify chassis that falls out of spec for efficient abs system operation.

And drive slower.

 

Uhhhhh, ok. Thanks.

 

Each tire has a total traction budget. It can use that for braking, acceleration or steering.

Locked tires, cannot also steer. Tires with the best possible steering traction, are not braking.

ABS brakes simply prevent tires from locking, so that you always are able to steer, but at the expense of braking ability. This may be what you want if your going around a corner., while also panic braking....if you're headed straight for a tree, not so much.

Another side effect of ABS, is that if you are on an uneven surface, ABS will match all your brakes, to the tire with the LEAST traction. So one tire on ice, will make all tires act as if they are ice. You won't risk spinning out of control, but your truck will act as though its on a sheet of ice, even if its only one tire with poor traction and it would normally stop just fine.

On pavement, you will never notice a problem. But on gravel, sand, snow or mud....stopping distance can be doubled with ABS on, vs off.

 

Oh for sure, not disagreeing with that

Exactly, it’s definitely a feature aimed at day to day use to control skidding and allow steering on pavement.

 

A properly adjusted parking brake should provide some assistance in this case. As for the intersection approach and failed braking...if speed allows, try to take a hard right turn vs. crossing the entire intersection. Much safer to keep the momentum in the same direction during any impact.

 

I have not heard of any. But several 1st and 2nd gens.

I'm done watching this thread because of all the random b.s. posts by guys with zero to add on topic, who'd like to share general advice on Maybe You Should Maintain Your Vehicle Better and How to Drive with those of us who have actually lived through these failures. But if there's ever a breakbrakethrough on how to repair this dangerous anomaly other than removing the ABS fuse, I'd be thrilled to have someone tag me to that.

 

Is this ABS problem limited to gen 1 & 2 tundras? Or is it still an issue with the gen 2.5? I have not experienced it myself in my 2015, and sure don’t want to!

 

Don't know. I've only seen it documented by 1st and 2nd gen drivers who have experienced it.

 

Aerindel has written some good analysis of ABS systems (above), but I think the statement quoted here is incorrect. I don't know what ABS system Toyota used in each generation of its Tundras, but I believe that modern ABS systems use a 4 channel system that measures grip at each wheel and adjusts braking to maximize grip at each wheel. In other words, it doesn't set reduce braking on all wheels to the grip of the wheel with the least traction. Older 1 channel systems may have worked that way, but I highly doubt Toyota is using a 1 channel system on Tundras. Perhaps someone who knows what Toyota is using on our trucks can weigh in.