Gen 3 VS 3/4 Ton for towing TT

You’re comparing gasoline engines in a 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton or 1 ton though. It’s not a direct comparison if you have to account for the engine duty cycle, and consider what the engine is designed for in that application.

As far as auto manufacturers are concerned the engine in a 1/2 ton pickup might as well be a passenger car engine. A 1/2 ton is not designed for commercial users who plan to put a vocational service body on the frame that will weigh a couple of thousand pounds once it’s loaded with tools and materials, tow trailers day in and day out, all while being driven by employees who may or may not care about the equipment. That’s what 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks are for. That is what fleet customers buy.

The 6.6L GM and Ford 7.3L were specifically designed, and tuned to appeal to fleet customers that need a gas engine that can put up with a heavier duty cycle and maintain reliability and longevity. Accordingly they’re not made to make a lot of horsepower per liter, making high amounts of power per unit of displacement generates more heat, accelerates wear, and consumes more fuel. Fleet customers wanted simple to maintain gas engines that could provide good power to work trucks to replace expensive to buy and maintain diesels. They wanted adequate power, serviceability, and durability not maximum power.

The more demanding the duty cycle of an engine the less power engineers will design/tune the engine to produce. For example any given day I will use 3-5 locomotives rated for 4,300 to 4,400 HP per unit.

Using a GE GEVO V12 as an example we have a displacement of 188L. Just shy of 15.7L/cylinder. Making a whopping specific power of 23.4 HP/L. Sounds pretty bad by your standards, but it is a continuous duty rating. These engines are made to produce 4400 HP all day long at full throttle if needed and do so for years between rebuilds. To accomplish this the cooling system holds about 440 gallons of water, and the oiling system holds 468 gallons of oil when full (rarely full in my experience). There’s an entire compartment bigger than the inside of your Tundra with air filters in it. That’s what it takes to make that much power continuously and maintain reliability.

If we subjected your blown 5.7L 3UR-FE to that it would be reduced to scrap in less than a day. Duty cycles make a difference.

 

Totally get what you’re saying in far more words than necessary, but I’d choose a 3UR to outlast those other 2 pulling 12k day in and day out in pickup duty in a 1 ton Chassis, especially if it was the same design with larger displacement….. turns out I’d pick none of the above for my personal locomotive.

 

I’m not laughing at it, just bringing it up for conversation. The OP started this thread asking about TTV6 Vs 3/4 ton pulling a camper. People have brought up concerns about the smaller engine being able to handle it. Thus my intrigue with GM’s smaller turbo in a half ton.
Will it last? Could it handle pulling across the country for thousands of miles? Will we start to see more and more 4 cylinder turbos in trucks?

 

I wouldn’t bet on the 3UR-FE in that application at 381HP and 401ft-lbs as Toyota designed the engine, lubricating system, and cooling package. Now if we turn it down to 360HP by lowering the RPM for fuel cutoff, and and 25% more cooling capacity, and a 10qt oil pan I could see it surviving fleet buyers who give the trucks to indifferent employees to drive.

 

See what I need GM to do is take that 2.7L and add 2 more cylinders to make an inline 6. That would be a 4.0L twin turbo I-6, and should easily make well over 400HP and 500ft-lbs.

 

I can see it surviving fleet use as it is. There are currently multiple insanely high mileage 3UR-FEs (one or two are million milers at this point, I believe). All the 400k+ mile trucks are work trucks, no major repairs, rode hard and put up wet, etc. A naturally aspirated 3UR-FE is a low-stress engine.

 

One major recommendation. Spend the $$$$$ and purchase a Hensley Hitch or a Pro Pride Hitch. They are guaranteed not to have any sway whatsoever. I have the Hensley Hitch and I would not use anything else.

 

Hensley is great if you have the payload capacity for a 200 lb hitch. My Payload is a little over max already.

 

Not to mention the wallet capacity for a $2K to $3,500 hitch. My wallet is a little over max already.

Otherwise, heck yeah.

 

If you over-payload, then why are you towing what you have? My tongue weight on my TT is 800# and my Hensley hitch levels out my trailer and tow vehicle perfectly, and I have zero sway. I don't think $$$ should be a factor when dealing with safety. Just can't put a price on safety.

 

Not true. Safety = $$$. Pay up front, or pay later.

 

There's also throwing good money after bad. I'm not dropping $3000 on a hitch that's going to remove 200lbs of payload capacity when a $400 Reese will get the results I want. If I'm going to spend that kind of money to make the rig feel safer at or over max capacity, then I'd rather upgrade to a larger truck that can handle the load instead of trying to give me a false sense of security of my truck not being overloaded.

 

I don't think you understand what the Hensley Hitch or Pro Pride hitch actually does. I'll just step out of this conversation. Have a great day and a safe one too.

 

While I'm not disputing that the Hensley/ProPride hitches are very good at what they do, there's also no disputing that they're VERY heavy, and VERY expensive. Not everyone can afford to spend three grand on a hitch.

I also have a level TV/Trailer combo with zero sway with my $350 Andersen WDH.

Again, not disagreeing with you about the safety and effectiveness of the Hensley or that safety is worth spending some money on, but there's other ways to be perfectly safe without taking out a second mortgage.

 

Geez, and I thought my Equal-i-zer was expensive.

 

You're going to tell me you're not over your payload capacity with an 800 lb (I assume that's dry) hitch weight?

 

Actually no, not overweight at all. The trailer is a 27' KZ Sportsman bunkhouse. On the scale, the trailer is 8457# loaded ready for a week-long trip. Nothing in the truck but myself and my wife.

 

Is that the 6.6 gasser with the 10-speed? Did they just slap the Allison brand on the same transmission they developed with Ford, or is this one different?

 

15% of the weight of your trailer is more than your truck's payload before you've put anything in the truck.

 

I think it's different as the one they developed with Ford is only for light duty applications but I do think it's a GM transmission they slapped the Allison brand on. I'm not sure when Allison stopped actually being involved.

 

I'm not debating if the Hensley is a good hitch. I'm only pointing out that they are heavy and some of us are very payload limited and it's something to consider. If you can swing it and like it good for you.

As to your question on why I tow over payload, my 26 ft, 5800 lb loaded camper puts me about 50 lbs over payload. After burning a quarter tank of gas I'm in spec. So I guess I'm just a crazy daredevil.

 

dude, I’m reporting you to the towing police

 

Been a Chevy person for 30 years and would own one again in a heart beat if I could justify a 3/4 ton.

 

#overpayloadandlovingit

 

Is that $63k for a duramax or gasser ???

 

I've got a 23 trd pro and we've been looking at trailers I've set like a rough standard of <=6000lbs gvwr on the trailer and less than 25ft.

 

Adding $9K to that and getting the Duramax still has you priced near enough to a TRD Pro or Capstone to give someone who isn’t a mindless fan boy pause.