Looked at everything and bought a Tundra

Actually, if you slice the data for trucks, adding in the Tacoma, it makes it look even worse for Ford. Too soon to tell but indicators are that the 2023 Tundra quality is improving as they work through the first model year and Ford is regressing.

 

Hey I drive a Toyota and were on the same page. I do believe they are one of the if not the most reliable brands. All I am saying is, if I had a lemon Ford I would jump brands. Same goes for Toyota, If I got a lemon from them I would be out of Toyota as well. I wouldn't stick around because of what everyone else says. The reliability is shot for whichever brand I buy a expensive vehicle and get a Lemon. I wouldnt base my luck on someone else's luck. I am really big on just because I like Toyota's doesnt mean all other brands are "shit". Alot of mechanic shops I have taken my trucks to over the years have told Toyota's suck and they would NEVER buy one but thats the perk of "its your money and you spend it on what makes YOU most happy."

On the numbers agree to disagree. In my opinion, Toyota Trucks are not going to dethrone GM or Ford trucks anytime soon on popularity its just not in the cards ESPECIALLY not in North America. We are definitely the most popular imported brand next to Honda and Nissan though so that's for sure. Lets not forget there is a MASSIVE market of people who ONLY buy American Made purely on principal. Like the original comment that I quoted said 40-50 years for Ford to be top dog is not a fluke.

 

too piggy back on this, how many big issues did toyota fix in the first year on the tundra. how many big issues did ford fix in the first year on the f150 revamp when they went to the eco boost engine. how many of those big issues in the 1st year of the f150 are still issues?

now in the 2nd year of the tundra, after fixing most of the big issues from 22 they are now moving to 2nd tier issues. toyota is about incremental improvement year over year.

same as the 2ng gen when it came out. by the time they were 1/2 way thru the gen most 1st and 2nd tier and some 3rd tier issues were resolved.

 

As I said no denying the reliability of the tundra it’s the reason a lot of us buy them. All I’m saying is the shear number of F Series trucks compared to Toyota does have the companies focusing on two very different things. Toyota is trying to make a quality product and Ford as I’m sure wants to put out good quality is also trying to keep up with the demand.

 

Huge reason I got a Tundra.

 

Had an 18 1794, 19 platinum, then 2022 1794 now a 2023 platinum, great half tons enjoy your new ride.

 

Bud lite part two...
Talk about shooting themselves in the foot,die hard ford fans will buy the there product hoping/praying there truck isn't a POS but soon to find out that it's true colors im erg (no pun )intended and now this comercial comes out.
Holy boycotts coming there way!


Just saying.

 

I think you're spot on regarding Toyota doing incremental improvement on quality. At a rapid rate too. The turbo issue is an interesting look at how they isolated the problem, developed a solution and implemented. Bad that there was a problem but the approach was impressive. As others have mentioned, Ford is biased toward top line first and foremost. Just different philosophies. Toyota has become the #1 automaker in the world with their approach. You can read where Ford is at below. By the CEO for God's sake.

The CEO's own words- Throughout 2022, Ford CEO Jim Farley has repeatedly stated the fixing quality issues is a top priority, and the automaker did hire a new quality czar to address the outstanding issues, who previously said that recurring problems should start to subside in 2023. However, based on recent comments from Farley, it seems that the process will be an affair that lasts several years.“Fixing quality is my No. 1 priority,” Farley told the Ford Retired Engineering Executives group at their most recent gathering. “It is the most important initiative in the whole company. And it’s going to take several years. We didn’t lose it in just one or two years. Until we fix quality, nothing else matters.”

 

Thanks. I was a coin flip between the 1794 and platinum. I like the look of the platinum better but I've had 4 black interiors in a row and opted for blue/saddle just for a change of pace. Hopefully, it's in by the 3rd week of June.

 

i think people are missing the volume % threshold. if ford is doing 10-20% by volume vs toyota doing maybe 5% by volume failure rate, that is where the disconnect it. you cant look at it by the pure numbers cause then its not an apple to apple comparison. if ford or anyone can get into the <5% fail rate you are doing good no matter the industry (high volume, high complexity)

5% of toyota 100k = 5000 trucks

5% of ford 500k = 25,000 trucks

but if you push fords fail rate up to 10% or more then it gets really nuts and cause you to spend more to fix stuff afterwards at a higher cost rate than if you fixed it before leaving the factory.

thats where toyota saves a lot of overhead in the long run and makes more profit, less afterwards expenses.

thats how i see it to make the field level across the board.

 

We had 2 f150s at work not as work trucks for hauling but for people to drive around in and our fleet mechanic maintained them, they did have over 200k not sure if original motor and tranny but over 200k and running so I’ll give them that, other than it running they were both pure trash nothing including the power seats worked had a weird exhaust leak coming thru the firewall so had to drive with my head out the window dash was literally falling apart etc
in fords defense none of the employees like working there so they abuse the hell out of the truck

now we also have a Lexus sedan with over 200k miles and same thing the employees abuse the living hell out of it one guy before he quit dumped an entire canister of gasoline and smeared grease all over the interior and guess what everything I mean everything works still and it literally drives brand new so smooth and quiet

Not trying to compare an f150 to a Lexus sedan but just shows you how one company designs and engineers a vehicle so much better than another

 

it also helps that toyota mentality is build once last forever

good example is the land cruiser. its built with the intention of lasting 25 yrs. parts are made slight thicker to last the 25 yr requirement.

from what i know, only the land cruiser has a mandatory 25 yr requirement.

 

My 2021 Powerboost has been nearly perfect for a year and then was sidelined for over 2 weeks because a wiring recall to fix the unitended tailgate opening issue corrupted computer software and caused my headlights to come on on their own every 10 minutes with the truck off and the light switch off. It is fixed, but it was in for 15 days. The two other cases I know of with the same scenario were just over 30 days and over 3 months. I think mine went relatively quick because after throwing one part at it without fixing it and a couple more days of shoulder shrugging I escalated to the GM and to Ford customer care who reached out and connected the dealer to tech support in Dearborn. Otherwise we're talking about corrupted software, so god knows how long they would have chased that without involving an engineer.

The Ecoboost has seen multiple updates to remedy weakpoints and I feel like the powertrain will go 10-plus years with minimal maintenance. Feels flawless to me. The way the software and electronics are set up is what makes me nervous. I went in to have my tailgate rewired in a day thinking my next 2 weeks of vehicle use could go as planned and ended up in an Escape with no hitch or roof rack due to a software bug. This truck is going to have to have a really good track record for the next few years to silence a little voice in the back of my head nudging me to trade while it has value. There is something off about the way Ford integrates everything into the different modules and writes software that just creates a very frustrating electronics trouble shooting process.

I love the ride, performance, utility, and 7.2 kw propower onboard capabilities. I love that it's as fast as my Challenger RT was. But I just don't know if I can handle 10 years of the hairs on the back of my neck raising up every time my dealer tells me they need to reprogram in the process of fixing something. If it gets sent down the road in favor of something else in under 5 years electronics will likely be the reason. Otherwise I'd probably never let it go.

 

All the more impressive that Lexus scores #1 with the fewest problems when it's taken into account that it is a high content and high feature product. More things that could go wrong and fewer do.

 

I just surrendered my F150 today back to Ford on a buyback. It was easy, the GM was a really nice guy. The truck will not be resold. It will most likely be destroyed. That's an example of how different Ford and Toyota approach quality. Ford views warranty as an expense to be managed on the P&L. Toyota views it as a central part of their ethic to have high levels of quality and they have processes to support it.
Ford viewed my truck as a loss, oh well. Toyota would have guys doing root cause analysis to determine the cause and how to fix it going forward.
Ford has a stated problem. Who did they hire to get their arms around it? A process guy out of JD Power.

 

Ford corporate told you they aren't going to to a root cause analysis? Just blow it up and write it off on P&L? Or are you speaking in hyperbole because of a bad experience which is totally understandable.

 

Nope. I asked the GM specifically. He said it will not be resold. They don't transfer records or anything with it. It may be used as a loaner for execs for a short while but will most likely end up being stripped for parts where they can use used parts. It will sit there 2-4 weeks before it's picked up. The attitude was one of "it happens".

 

You understand not being resold, and not using the truck to run a root cause analysis are not the same thing, right? Run the analysis then part out the truck makes more sense than anything else?

 

I ran a six sigma program. got it. I saw no signs that they were trying to capture or do anything with data which would be first and foremost. When asked the GM said they, Ford corporate, wasn't going to put more effort into it. The theory was it's a harness/connector issue. As near as I could tell, it's open loop.

 

I just picked my F150 up after the fiasco and one thing the service manager explained is not all these
Computer modules are made by Ford, some are made and programmed by other suppliers. Makes it harder to isolate a problem.

If foreign manufacturers consistenty manage to deliver high content vehicles that aren't this electronically problematic I wonder if designing and integrating the whole thing in house is a difference maker.

 

It does demand a commitment to revision management and most of all regression testing. As time goes on, you get more modules made at different times by different people. It could get worse over time. Or, they out the processes in place which I think they’ll do.

 

So would it be fair to say some of Ford's electrical problems could come from outsourcing some critical programming to keep fewer engineers on the payroll to cut costs?

 

So… I’m assuming those ford truck numbers include up to the 650? Or just 350? If you think about it, that’s actually kind of sad. Like you manufacture the 250,350 (450,550,650, 750…) and even some bigger trucks… and all those models only net you twice the sales of a manufacturer not competing past the f150? Makes Toyota look kind of smart

 

I just wanted to say thank you @BoulderGT3 for sharing your experience with the F150. This is one of the threads that helped me make up my mind to stick with Toyota and not go down the Ford rabbit hole.

 

There are many people out there having good experiences with F150's but mine wasn't one of them. I still wouldn't go near one because of support.
On line 2, my Tundra is boring from a service needs standpoint. Zero issues and it just keeps driving better and better. I hope you have the same experience.

Back in the day I spent many nights in the Armory and days on Horsetooth.

 

thats pretty bad since the usual #1 complaint across all oem's and each model is that the entertainment system is the top issue. if you beat that you are really doing bad imo



see next post

 

lol zulu dawn scenario here. if you throw enough trucks at the requirement, you will overwhelm the stat. remember ford is lumping all Fxxx models into 1 stat to get the "best selling truck" for the last 40+ years. if you actually broke it out as f150, f250, f350, etc, the f150 is not actually the best selling truck.

everyone complains about comparing the f250/350 to a f150/tundra but ford has no problem lumping them together to claim the title of "best selling truck in xx years"

its only apples to oranges when specs, or apples to apples on sales by units




ugh i didnt realize i zombied an old thread sorry about that for the 2 posts. ignore them