Dealer Trans Drain and Fill Advice Needed

So I recently had my 2015 (100k miles) serviced at the stealership. Transmission drain and fill, diffs, t-case, coolant, oil change etc. I should not have done this.

Now before I get flamed on here, I have recently done a bunch of repair/maintenance work on my partners car and our grocery getter sh*tbox and I was just kinda burnt out on doing anymore/wanted some weekend time back. Also, big part of this is not having garage/shop or even a flat concrete slab to work on. It's either gravel driveway or dirt floor hay barn. Obviously, I should have just done this myself.

So first red flag at Toyota, I have to go back and forth several times with the service advisor and tech, before they agree to do a drain and fill and not a flush (the hook up the machine kind of flush). But they finally agree to it.

As an aside, the service advisor quoted me a price on this work, then said he can give me 20% off. So I think great, I'm getting 20% off the price just quoted. Nope, the price he gave me first already included the 20% off. Sleazy tactic.

Anyway, I get my truck back after the work, drive home and get underneath and notice there is fluid spattered all over the undercarriage. As far as I can tell it's all from drips from draining everything and then not cleaning up at all. Doesn't look like leaks but c'mon. Brake cleaner and a rag ain't that hard.

Then I really start looking at my paper work. Notice that all the fluids are noted as "BG". I think to myself, they certainly can't mean the company BG that makes petroleum products additives etc. But yeah, they do. So I call and get specifics about the drain and fill. Turns out, they used two BG additives/cleaners in the transmission, ran the truck, cycled gears etc. w/ a "universal fluid" then drained and filled again with a "universal fluid." I forgot to ask as my anger levels were rising but based on everything so far, I am guessing the proper drain and fill method monitoring temp was not used.

Everything I have read, seen in videos, working on my own toyota trucks for 15 years tells me this is way wrong. The fricken reason I did this at the dealership as opposed to my mechanic is that I figured certainly I'll get the proper Toyota fluids in my truck with the proper procedures. It seems insane to me that the fluid I would go buy at the parts counter is not what they put in my truck.

So now I am worried/pissed about whatever additives they used in the transmission and looking for some advice on what to do. Drain and fill with Toyota fluid? Don't worry about it and let it ride? Am I worked up about nothing?

I doubt its gonna get me anywhere but I am thinking about making a stink about this with the dealership/toyota. More details not worth noting here that made the whole experience particularly bad. It does look like they at least got the coolant right.

 

If it were mine I'd just do a total fluid exchange myself and be done with it. I just did mine yesterday, it's the second time I've done it....at 120,000 and yesterday at 160,000. It's not terribly difficult just takes 1-2 hrs to complete. And you'll need 14-15 quarts if you have the 5.7. I have used valvoline max life both times as it's much cheaper than the toyota ws and it has worked flawlessly. This is the best video I could find on it

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cB8MdGgwg68

Read the first comment posted as it adds 1 minor thing he forgot to put in the video.

 

I wouldn't beat yourself up too bad. The work is done so that's what counts. Unfortunately due to a pair of bad rotator cuffs I can't do much myself anymore with the exception of some detailing. i took my 2007 to the dealership and had the whole 125,000 miles service on mine at 213,000 miles. Was it expensive, yes. Do I regret it, not particularly. I'm happy it's done. You should be good to go now. I say enjoy the next 100,000 and forget about it.

 

Relax bro, as long as the oil is compatible. It’s all good. Toyota using valvoline and other brand atf all the time when they low in stock.

 

There is no such thing as "Universal" fluid. Every ATF has specific characteristics that the designers put there for a reason and the engineers that designed the transmission expect to see. There is an Amisal training video on youtube that explains everything. It is not enough that a fluid be "compatible" it has to be to spec. If it doesn't meet spec then don't use it. The specifications vary so widely that there can't be a "universal" fluid. Using the wrong ATF could mean the difference between getting 100,000 miles or 500,000 miles out of your transmission. So the fact that the dealership put third party fluids in your vehicle without you requesting them should not have been done. I would call Toyota corporate and explain this to them and see what they have to say about it. When you go to a dealership you expect to get official Toyota replacement parts and fluids not third party aftermarket stuff.

Another thing is why did they charge you for a flush kit if you didn't flush the transmission? You don't need any kind of kit to do a simple drain and fill. I would ask them about that too.

 

I think the "kit" is the BG additives they told me about but I should clarify.

But this reply is kind of where my thinking has been. If I go to Toyota to have a ball joint replaced, I expect it to be a toyota part (aisin or whatever) not a dorman from autozone. Same goes for fluid.

 

Expectations vs what actually happens are two things. Just because it's expected, doesn't mean that's what actually is going to happen. Do dealers advertise or state that they use Toyota branded items on all service work?

 

Seeing that Toyota recommends that only Toyota ATF WS be used in these transmissions one would think that that is exactly what the dealership would be using. Or at the very least they should be using an ATF that meets all of Toyota's specifications. There are only a handful of companies that make ATF WS substitute that meets or exceeds Toyota OE specs and they are usually more expensive then the Toyota OE ATF. Looking at the OP's receipt from the dear ship and after visiting BG's website I can't find anywhere that would indicate that they make a fully compatible to spec replacement for Toyota ATF WS. They do have their fully synthetic "Universal" one size fits all ATF that BP claims is compatible with all modern transmissions. This is by all indications exactly what they put in the OP's ride. It is also BG's lowest tier ATF. But according to the TSB from Toyota It clearly states that ATF WS is not compatible with Dexron I, II, or III nor is it compatible with T-IV meaning you can't intermix these types of ATF but somehow there is a universal fluid that meets all the OE specs of all three fluids and is interchangeable. Hun? This isn't even possible. The damage that could be caused by using "universal" ATF may not show up right away, it might, but chances are that the damage won't show up until later or maybe it shows up that one time you are towing a heavy boat up a long grade in sweltering mid summer heat when you find yourself broke down on the side of the road.

T-SB-0006-11, “World Standard Automatic Transmission Fluid,” Toyota writes:

• The use of Genuine Toyota ATF-WS is recommended.
  • The use of additives or aftermarket fluids that are considered compatible or substitutes may result in shift concerns and damage to the internal transmission components.
  • ATF-WS is NOT compatible with T-IV or Dexron ATF.

Here is an abstract from a ASE technical paper.

 

First off, I'd like to say that you should not be "flamed" for taking your truck to a Toyota dealer for service. I agree w/the concept that if you want it done right, do it yourself... but, when you take your Toyota truck to a Toyota dealer you should be able to expect the 'gold standard' of service and not worry about what they are using and how the work is being done. Unfortunately, this is no longer the reality for having your vehicle serviced at most Toyota dealerships (my local dealership included).

My opinion on your concerns is simply this... If you are not comfortable w/what transpired and with the quality of service/products you received, nothing anyone will say here is going to ease that discomfort. I say you should do what you can to get the fluids into your truck that you feel comfortable running with and then try to work things out on the back end through Toyota corporate.

Regarding a couple of comments about the expectations to use Toyota recommended fluids and parts, I think most dealerships have a paragraph or two on their website or posted in the dealership somewhere regarding the reasons why you'd want to have your vehicle serviced by a Toyota dealership...

Why Choose Toyota of XXXXX for Your Service Needs?
At Toyota of XXXXXX, we’re committed to providing exceptional service to all of our customers. Here are just a few reasons why you should choose us for your service needs:

1. Expert Technicians: Our team of experienced and knowledgeable technicians is here to provide you with top-notch service and maintenance. They use the latest equipment and technology to ensure that your vehicle is running safely and efficiently.
2. Genuine Toyota Parts: Using genuine Toyota parts ensures that your vehicle is running as it should be. Toyota’s Genuine Parts are specifically designed and engineered to work with Toyota vehicles, providing drivers with the confidence and peace of mind that comes with knowing their vehicle is running at its best.
3. Convenient Scheduling: Scheduling your service appointment with Toyota of XXXX is easy. You can either call us or use our online scheduling tool to schedule your appointment at a time that’s convenient for you.

... so I think the consumer's expectation would be to receive Genuine Toyota Parts and Fluids unless you're told otherwise prior to the service!!

For people that can't or don't want to DIY, I think it's extremely important to start developing a trusting relationship w/smaller, locally owned, repair facilities. Start by walking in and talking to them and find out what they are about. Ask questions, express your concerns and expectations, and talk about the use OE parts, etc.... It's time we as consumers give our business to folks that are out there doing the right thing and trying to earn a living by doing good, honest work.

I hope you are able to reach a quick resolution that leaves you confident and doesn't end up costing you another chunk of money

 

Only a few dealer in my area said they use genuine Toyota parts, other said they use the best tools and parts. And op dealer website is all about BG products and give lifetime warranty and never mention about genuine parts or oil.

 

Bamtruck - I would be similarly concerned. When I went to a Toyota dealership to buy fluids to drain/fill my transmission and transfer case a few weeks ago, they came out with the BG fluid for the transfer case. I asked about the "unicorn tears" LF fluid, they brought out two other products before finally admitting that they didn't carry the LF. They checked inventory across dealerships, and only 1 dealer in the entire area actually carried LF. I asked what they would use if I had them perform the work and they pointed to the BG fluid. <shrug> Thankfully they did have the WS transmission fluid. Same dealer tried to sell me aftermarket pan drain crush washers too. I'm not opposed to aftermarket stuff, btw...but I don't appreciate not having an option.

I'm with you and tripleconpanna, though. If I took it to the dealer, I'd expect Toyota parts/fluids to be used unless told otherwise upfront.

 

Toyota recommends it but that's different than requires it. Yes I would be led to believe a Toyota dealer would use Toyota branded items but unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case 100% of the time.

How different would a universal fluid be compared to any of the Dexrons? I guess the only real way to know is to see the chemical make up for Dexron and universal.

I wonder how much of an uphill battle it would be for a customer to request only Toyota branded (recommended) fluids be used when serviced at a dealer? It makes me wonder if some dealers even stock it?

 

Jaypown - There are a ton of discussions about WS and other fluids over at Bob is the Oil Guy. In short, it looks to me that WS is quite low viscosity (~5) and has a semi-synthetic base.

Dexron is ok for the older Yotas that call for TypeIV fluid, but it's somewhere in the 10-11 viscosity range if my memory serves. I also seem to recall that those are old school dino oils with different additive packages.

 

There are a number of differences actually. One of the big ones is viscosity like you say. There are some other differences though dealing with things like friction modifiers and heat tolerance, that kind of thing.

This is true but a lot of that has to do with legalities though. If somebody else makes an ATF that has all of the required components then Toyota can't make you use theirs, they can only recommend it. But that doesn't mean your better off ignoring what they say and putting in what ever. ATF is basically out of patent and the most you can do is patent a specific formulation but other parties can come along and make very similar versions of the same thing just slightly different and in most cases when dealing with things like motor oil you are just fine going with who ever because with motor oil is not as critical as ATF. Motor oil is motor oil at this point but ATF has such a varying degree of formulations and each transmission manufacturer requires that ATF used in their transmissions meet their specifications so this makes it almost impossible for anyone to make a "universal" ATF, and companies that make that claim aren't being completely honest.