Trans flush - Too late?

I recently purchased a 2019 with 113k miles... yes I know... High Mileage... Service history was impeccable, only registered in the south east (NO rust)... I'm happy with it. I don't know if the trans has even been serviced and I've heard (and experienced) some horror stories. Nonetheless, I am wondering if my mileage is too high to drain and fill the transmission (NOT FLUSH)? Maybe even change the filter at the same time. I am willing to have the dealer (or a local toyota exclusive shop) perform the service. I don't really feel like tearing that down in the driveway... plus I'd like to have it in a professionals hands with OEM fluid. Any opinions?

 

I would recommend against a full flush, drain fill only, by you or a trusted shop. A drain and fill isn't difficult, just replace what you take with new fluid and ensure the right levels. You can do that a couple of times in a few years time and eventually you will have mostly new fluid in there. Transmission fluid changes are not like an oil changes because there is no other "fuel" contaminant. A full flush may lead to problems. My .02, sure others will chime in.

 

There's nothing wrong with replacing all the fluid (call that or flush or whatever you want). The issue is when you force pump new fluid into it and that can cause issues. Drain and fill or swap new fluid out, both work. I like to change all the fluid in one go. 100k miles is a drop in the bucket lol.

 

Do not do a flush and do not change all the fluid. Just do the drain and fill. You don’t want ALL the old fluid out. You simply want to freshen up its blood with some new stuff every 50k.

 

My 2019 has 40k miles, I did drain&fill at 21k and then at 32k miles. Yours at 100k miles probably saw a lot of highways, which is good for cooling and reducing wear, unless it was towing a lot.

Do it in your driveway, you will have a chance to assess ATF discoloration. Worst can happen is valve body, which is not more expensive than in other vehicles and is pretty easy to replace.

 

Agreed.

Agreed x2.

 

Mine was already brownish at 21k miles. Having no ATF cooler does not help with cooling ATF

 

Don’t let the color of the fluid trick you into thinking it’s bad because it’s no longer red. Toyota WS trans fluid changes color pretty quickly after it’s heated and circulated in the system.

 

It does not turn brown as quick in other AisinWarner transmissions. AB60 runs much hotter, too. 10 miles on a freeway in a 50F weather and it gets to 200F and higher. My other AW-equipped vehicle with similar MPG can't even reach 150 F.

ATF is cheap, drain&fill is easy to do. I'll continue judging by the color

 

So by doing a drain and fill, you’re removing less then 1/3 of the total trans fluid capacity (which is a good thing) but if you think the fluid should still be bright red after mixing with the remaining 2/3 of fluid you’re dead wrong. Change it again after a little run time and it will still be brown. It will never look bright red again once mixed.

 

I use to change the tranny fluid every 36K which then became 50k. I have never liked going more than 50k, but I currently have 92K in camry I'm using Valvoline max life.The fluid is still pink and smells fine...no point in replacing it, shifts fine. There is no problem replacing all the fluid at once. People are so paranoid about that. Just pull the transmission cooler line. 18 and below only.... Ive been doing it this way for years. Now the tundra is a different situation because you cant monitor the fluid, so that will get changed when need be.

 

I'm removing 1/2 (6 qt). Sump is 4 qt, let it drain for a few hours and 2 more will come out. It is not 100% new fluid, but it is 50% new fluid, which is better than 0% new fluid. It was red when I did another d&f 11k miles later. I'm going to replace another 6 qt soon.

The problem with keeping old ATF in, it is suspending particulates from clutch packs wear and cause wear in valve body. The longer you keep your old ATF, the more damage is accumulated. By doing d&f often vs full flush once in a while, you keep ATF cleaner on average and thus reduce VB wear. Price-wise it's the same money.

Also ATF has anti-friction modifier, which helps with reducing clutches wear during shifts. Modifiers gets into upper layer of friction plates, wears out with the frictions and gets replenished from ATF. When ATF becomes dull, clutches wear accelerates greatly.

 

you’re doing a drain and fill every 11k?

 

We flushed our AT in the Sequoia at 110-115k miles without any issues. My mechanic is a Toyo Master Tech if that matters.

 

It is about my annual mileage on Tundra. It sees a lot of city driving, which means a lot of shifts, a lot of take offs with torque converter unlocked. And I take it for offroad a few times a year.

 

This is a great video to watch. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jJr30r6RRgw

 

I did a full trans flush, using the transmission's own pump to empty the pan about 3 quarts at a time, at 94k miles. The fluid was original as far as I could tell. I used a total of 14 quarts of WS fluid and she is doing just fine. I've taken 7 hours drives with it, and towed an 8000 camper after the flush.

I only wouldn't do a full flush IF the transmission already had issues or was shifting poorly. People get too scared of flushes, but honestly I think those tales come from doing flushes on transmissions that already had one foot in the grave.

But if you want to play it safe, there's absolutely nothing wrong with a few drain and fills. It'll also give you a good idea of the condition of your fluid.

 

I'm not arguing. Everyone decides how much he wants to take care of his belongings. This is what I saw through my course of a tree shade mechanic and what gave some ideas about how often should the automotive fluids be replaced.

AW transmission taken apart at ~210k miles. ATF was flushed at 110k miles and then a few d&f when I got it at 207k miles.



Bearing race cut through the case, because the transmission was severely overheated and it spun and pushed out a bushing, resulting in a non-coaxial shaft.



Aisin Warner hardens a lot of critical parts, which turns them blue. This is another transmission, around 100k miles or so.



This is from that neglected transmission:



I have another, third transmission of the same kind. I got it at 80k miles, replaced valve body with rebuilt one (Sonnax) at 160k miles. Between 80k and 160k I did 5 full flushes and 7 drain&fills, close to 80 qt in total, trying to find a cheaper alternative to a very expensive OE fluid. ATF was never dirty in this transmission after I got it. In the next 40k miles after VB replacement I flushed ATF 1 more time and 1 d&f. This is how much dirt got accumulated in the valve body inline filters, only after 40k miles. Some dirt got past the filters and was found in solenoids and passages.





Don't have the pictures of disassembled VB from neglected transmission at hands, but it was basically gunk up.

Rebuilding transmission is very laborious. I decided I'll keep changing ATF often. Of course this only makes sense if I plan to keep the vehicle for a very long time, which I do.

 

At the end of the day, I guess it boils down to what makes sense to everyone and how long you want to make the vehicle’s last. I’m with you on one thing: I also keep my Yotas forever. Had my last two trucks for over 300k in miles and my current daily driver is a 2001 Sequoia pushing 273k in miles. Also have a 2017 Tundra that I know will outlive me lol.

 

I’ve never had to tear one apart period. I’ve done my share of GM transmissions but never had to tear apart any of my yota ones yet and I chalk that up to scheduled pm’s.

 

Drain and fills, send it bro. It's never too late to start taking care of it.

 

Did a drain and fill yesterday on my ‘20 with about 33k on it including the filter. Took about 6 qts of WS, fluid was dark, very little debris on magnets in pan.

 

Drain and refill every 6 years, or 60k.
If you let it go 100k or more, then never service it. And hope for the best.

 

As I assumed, everyone has a different opinion... Dealer says "no big deal, we will drain and fill and install a new filter" - local, well-known, Toyota exclusive shop says the same... Online I'm getting all kinds of different answers... who the hell knows haha

 

The only thing I'd worry about is breaking a bolt removing the tranny pan..., but I'm in the north east, salt and rust..

 

Aren't you just removing the drain and fill plugs?

 

That was from the guy in the video. He claims he won't do a drain and refill if it has more than 100k miles without a service. The odd thing is that 100k isn't that much more than 60k. Wear will be highly dependent on how you drive.

How much of the total oil is replaced in a drain and refill? I'm seeing ~4 qts online, vs a capacity of 12 qt, so only 1/3rd is getting replaced. So it will mostly be old oil left in.

I'm getting the impression that changing the oil at all has only minor benefits. He claimed the filters generally last the life, so they should keep any debris in check. And as the clutches wear they need some debris in order to have enough friction to work properly.

 

Luckily there isn't a speck of rust on this truck... that was a major selling point for me... So I'm not much worried about breaking bolts thankfully.

 

Yeah see that's where what he's saying doesn't make sense to me. If that's the case, then how does a freshly built transmission function properly with fresh fluid?? And what's even the point of the filter?! I just don't like that argument of keeping old shit ATF is better for the trans. I don't think I can ever subscribe to that. I've watched transmissions last for waaaaay longer than they should with lots of fluid maintenance, however they were Chrysler products so.....take that with a grain of salt.

I know people have success not changing fluid, and some people have had issues after a flush. But in my eyes, ATF is just another sacrificial fluid and requires replacement like engine oil, diffs, brake and power steering fluid (which is just ATF lol)

OP, go ahead and do a drain and fill. If the dealership wants to drop the pan and change the filter too....great. But if they break bolts make them cover that repair lol. Then in 30k come back and do it again. Just keep doing that and you'll be just fine. Plenty of people never do a damn thing and these transmissions still easily go for a quarter million miles.