Maybe this isn't "Tundra Only" but..Why do we need dealerships?

I know myself well enough to understand I can come to an argument without considering the other side. So I'm open to considering this because maybe - just maybe - I may be missing something here.
My take:
IMHO, dealerships suck. They're terrible, money hungry, thieving and conniving middlemen who provide nothing to the experience at all other than misery, angst, and disgust.
Yeah. I'm bitter.
I'm tired of being told "You can trust _insert-salesman-here_" and "_Insert-dealership-here_ does you right" You can't and they don't.
I have yet to have a single enlivening experience at a dealership. I always feel like I need a shower after I leave.

So, Tundra forum guys who I hope to join if I can ever find one to buy at a price that doesn't make me want to vomit in a bucket. Convince me I'm wrong. Convince me dealerships are a good idea.

I can buy almost anything online directly from a manufacturer. Not everything but dang near almost everything.
Want a screwdriver? You can buy Kobalt right from Lowes. Want a camera? You can buy from Canon, or any of a number of other manufacturers. lonely and want companionship? Love doll manufacturers are on standby.
But a TRUCK? Well, hold on buddy. 2023 and technology shopping may hold sway for hand tools and robotic love interests, but automobiles? THAT'S JUST LUNACY.

Like I said, maybe I'm wrong. I'm open to learn. To be swayed. To learn.

Seduce me,

 

I always think of dealerships like grocery stores or the big box stores.

I cannot buy a box of cereal straight from Kellogg's, BUT, I can go to 15 different grocery stores around me to shop for their product. Some are more expensive, just like market adjustment, because they have carpet (im looking at you Lunds) and of course every grocery or big box store wants you to sign up for their stupid member/rewards/discount/email-spam account! Just like a car dealership, they are going to try and throw add-ons and services at you.
I also try to buy from my local hardware store rather than Home Depot because the guys there love their jobs, they know my name, and genuinely want me to buy them best product for me. If a dealership gave me that kind of vibes, i might pay a MA just to give them business. Customer service and relationships is a service I am willing to pay for sometimes.

Changing the perception of dealerships to just like every other big box store helped me. They are all trying to make their money, and retain customers. I went with a local dealership that had no MA, and only gave me the add-on pitch once, and moved on when I politely declined. Guess what, they have my business now! Unless things change in the future.

Why are dealerships a good thing? Im at the point in life where I like when I call my dealer and they know what car I have, ask me how I am liking it and if they can do anything for me. It is in their best interest to retain me as a customer, and protect the vehicle that I will probably trade in to them for my next adventure. Sure I can go to Jimmy's Auto Shop, but Jimmy only cares about getting my truck in and out of the shop.

Just my experience and 2c

 

best purchase experience for my family was buying a Tesla Model S.

easy. no haggle. EVERYONE was friendly. EVERYONE was knowledgeable.

Texas is one big car dealership mafia.

Tesla scares them.

 

https://youtu.be/meHYBhcpdvQ

 

this is eerily similar to the 3-tier system of beer/alcohol distributors. we don't need/want the wholesaler.

 

Not all dealerships are that bad. It’s just that the sales people are usually not car guys or truck guys, or really mechanically inclined at all. The owners only care about making money, they incentivize the sales teams abhorrent behavior. The service departments tend to have under qualified, or at least under experienced techs that are just trying to run the vehicles through like cattle to maximize profit (who could blame them there). So yeah, turns out they are mostly crap.

 

We work in an industry that offers direct to consumer purchasing and retail based. Consumer pays the same price either way. I suspect auto industry would be the same if dealerships are eliminated consumer price won’t drop the manufacturer will just keep the profit. Manufacturers objective is to maximize shareholder performance not suddenly reduce msrp on direct sales.

 

You can't test drive a vehicle online..
And be it known I hate car salesmen as a whole.

Very happy with my dealership, Toyota of Rockwall.
They/Toyota paid for 7 months of rental of my 8 months of waiting on cat parts.

They gave me a free loaner for 2 weeks when my 2005 air pump disintegrated in 2011.
I didn't even buy the 2005 from them.

When I bought my 2014 they gave me a decent amount on my 2005 trade while it was still in the body shop.
With the deal I got, I didn't need gap insurance and they listened when I politely told them I didn't want any finance add-ons.
They swapped the leather for free because didn't like the cream-colored leather they put in it, even though that's was the VIN called for..
Finding the truck and most of the finance discussion was done in emails to the fleet sales manager.

When I get service they bring me home and then pick me up when the truck is ready.
It's a 30-mile round trip..

Have I had bad dealer experiences in my lifetime?
Yes, most of them, but the dealership I have now has been great..

If Toyota gets their crap together on the Gen 3s, I'll eventually buy one from them in time..

 

You give me the choice between sitting in a dealership for hours while _insert-here_ talks to _Manager-there_ to 'work out the details,' and paying more than MSRP for the vehicle I want, vs. ordering one online with the MSRP clearly stated and I just pick up, I'll take online every time.

 

I know I can't change the laws (FTC) and I can't break the strangle hold that the dealership "lobby" has on the manufacturers (See how powerless auto makers are in trying to break dealers from the ADM habit)...

But, what I CAN do is recommend a different way to purchase. If you want a Tesla, your problem is already solved since they don't use a dealer business model. However, if you don't want a Tesla...then let me introduce you to the Costco Auto Program (www.costcoauto.com). It's great. You still have to work with a dealer in the final stage, but it eliminates the "sleeziness" of having to put up with the hell's duo known as the sale person & sales manager. I just wish the 3rd Gen Tundra had been part of the program when I bought mine in late '21.

 

Are you prepared to ship your vehicle back to the manufacturer for warranty repairs, recalls, and other repairs that independent shops are unable to perform?

Or how do you see these things being done without dealerships?

 

I'm not a big fan of Tesla, but their "dealerships" are essentially nothing more than service centers that also act as delivery points for customer purchases. Ford also announced their new model as they prepare to spin-off their EV division into it's own company. They plan on doing the same thing: Using physical locations as service centers/parts centers that also will be where you pickup your new purchase.

Edit: It's also worth pointing out the Rivian service model. They perform a lot of repair/service/maintenance using mobile service vehicles. Granted, with Rivian, you pay a nice premium for something like that since Rivians are extremely pricey, but it's a cool business model.

 

It really comes down to the people, you can have a great experience and at a dealership and of course a bad one, no matter the case we still rely on them for factory recalls

 

Why do we need them - we don’t.

Why does Toyota keep them - a few reasons, all having to do with $$.

- There are long established contracts between Toyota and its distributors and those distributors and dealerships as well as Toyota corporate and dealerships in some areas that explicitly lay out the “right” of dealerships to have the exclusive right to offer products in their specific territory. No one - including Toyota itself - can sell a product in the territory. Toyota could certainly “buy back” that contract - but it ain’t gonna be cheap.

Then there’s the whole cost of servicing a few million customers - Toyota recognizes once you get more than a million units on the road - running service centers gets complex and expensive. Tesla has made it so far - but as the user base grows - the capacity extension will take its toll financially. Yes - it can be profitable - but that’s a big startup cost and eventually if you get greedy with margins someone will step in and start competing with you. Better to let the franchisees take on those problems and be the OE rather than trying to control the whole experience when you get so big.

Finally - sales. Again - like service it cost ALOT to maintain and train a large sales force capable of selling 10mm units a year. When your selling a few hundred thousand - good word of mouth, a website and artificial demand created by perceived scarcity is all you need. But when you have to sell millions of something - you need to create demand and the easiest way to do that is a sales staff that knows how to sell to consumers. Again - showrooms aren’t cheap and are relatively low profit percentages - leave that cost to the people who are established and be happy making 3% of a trillion dollars in sales rather than risking losing your ass rather than trying to “gain” another percentage point in profits controlling the who enchilada.

 

I'm not fan of exclusive dealership model for sales. I would prefer something like what happens at a good tire shop, you can buy from them or if you find a better price ordering somewhere you can get the tires shipped to you shop and they'll put them on for you.

 

That business model works well as long as you have a shop that’s willing to do it.

Most tire shops / especially the smaller one shop locations operate under a model of - they have a wholesaler who maintains an inventory of product and when they need it - they order what they need and the wholesaler brings them the tires the next day as part of the wholesalers delivery route. Tire shops do not maintain much of an inventory as too many sizes/products and keeping an inventory on hand not only cost $$ - but the product does eventually spoil.

But - what happens when mom and pop are driven out of business by Walmart et al. Sure - some chain stores will mount tires you bring in from an outside vendor - but how good is the service you are receiving and what stops them from changing that policy at any time ? Some will say it’s a “safety” thing - others will just be honest and say it’s too much trouble for the relative low margin service and they would prefer to be both the wholesaler/retailer of product and installer.

I personally love TireRack and the others - gives me instant choice and price comparison and doesn’t push me into buying whatever has the highest markup or best sales promo on them. Plus I’ve saved a bundle buying some stuff on close out or buying a 2-3 year old tire a few times. But a big part of their model relies on local tire shops doing the install. Big cities - there will always be an opportunistic mobile installer willing to do it for $150 a set. Small towns though - your likely at the mercy of one or 2 locals and not all of them are happy at you going to the Amazon of tires.

It’s like buying a chainsaw online and then going to your local hardware store to fix it when it won’t start or to sharpen a chain. Smart ones overprice their service and give a break to buyers who shop with them to keep it profitable - but not everyone does that and some simply will say “didn’t buy it from me - your in your own”. Better be prepared to DIY when you opt for the online experience and savings.

Eventually the chains can crush small businesses and the customer experience inevitably suffers. Smart small operators adapt and thrive - realizing that some people will pay more for service and the margins selling/maintaining an inventory aren’t worth it compared to being service only.

 

The test drive is the only reason for them to exist.

I kinda want a new Tundra, but there is zero chance that I will buy one without driving it first.

If manufactures can figure out a way for test drives to happen without dealerships, I'd be happy if they no longer existed.

Like most people have already said, I despise car salesmen and dealerships in general.

 

Yeah dealers suck, but they allow car manufacturers to build out an extensive service center network at little to no financial risk. The dealership owners take all the risk, they take out loans to build out their facilities, they hire employees. If dealership goes out of business, Toyota assumes no liability for things like unemployment, severance, or having to pay off mortgages.

Tesla is an example of direct sales. So they are on the hook for creating service centers everywhere. Tesla currently has 673 service centers in the us, compared to ~1,500 Toyota dealerships. I live in a small college town, we have a Toyota, Chevy, dodge, and ford dealership in town, but the closest Tesla service center is 2 hours away, used to be 6 hours away until last year.

 

Ha ha that’s on you not them…. Deal should be done via email so everything (price, dealer installed crap etc) is documented. Once deal is done set a time and length of time you have to pick up, ask for no walk through, take the keys and gone. Then the real reason you have a dealer if it craps out and needs warranty.

 

This is my feeling on dealerships and has been my experience with my local yota dealership. The salesman I work with exclusively. I called him, told him what I was looking for (early last year) a 18-20my crew cab, 4x4, 38gal tank, a couple of colors, mileage and price. He sold me my 2014DC, it’s been serviced there exclusively (their service mgr is awesome- could go on in another post about that if necessary), so he knew my trade, and knew I wasn’t in a hurry because I currently had a truck I liked. Finally got my current grocery getter last April. Right before rates took off into insanity. I paid a little more than if this was 3 years ago, but also got a stupid amount for my trade in so it washed in my mind. My daughter will be getting my wife’s 4R, so guess who I have looking for another vehicle for me?

edit: oh and other than maybe 20 min on the phone/ email and a stop by his office, walking into the sales office to “do the deal” took about 25 min to sign everything when I got a call that said “hey, everything is ready to come sign”.
That included swapping the license plates with a Phillips head instead the normal cordless that he couldn’t find

 

Dealership....They serve 3 purposes: 1) sell you the car (or truck) 2) Service. You may have a good mechanic. But who will do the warranty work? 3) Parts. I rather go down and pick up a part I need today.

I live on Long Island. Almost all car dealers are horrible to deal with. First my Honda experience. Went to almost every Honda dealer on Long Island. I got thrown out of all of them. Had to go to Bay Ridge, Brooklyn to get a good deal. But the salesman was golden.

Toyota: Went to all the dealers. I found one dealer willing to talk and negotiate regarding my 2020 Tundra (that had to be ordered). Most would not order a car. The rest when I brought down my Edmunds pricing said it was BS. The salesman I purchased from admitted the Edmunds pricing was fairly accurate. I purchased the Truck from him. No games, the salesman was solid and delivered on his promises. Going to the same Toyota for the first 2 free oil changes was a nightmare. So, sales were great, service not so much.

Parts: I wanted to change my wife’s wiper blades on her Honda Civic. Called all dealers close enough to make sense to drive to. One dealer was $8.99 all the rest were $12.99. Again, have to do your homework.

Bottom line to the OP. I think dealers are a convenience, IF you can find a good one.

 

You've unintentionally (or maybe intentionally) hit on the point that I think the OP was getting at with this statement...

I agree with you. If you find a great dealer/service/parts dept combo, then it reminds you of exactly why the dealership model exists. However, those dealerships are unicorns nowadays. Until you stumble across a great dealer, then the dealership model is a giant inconvenience & PITA. Case in point with your Honda experience & having to go to every Honda dealer in your area and then eventually go outside of your normal shopping area to find a dealer worth a damn.

 

It's an unnecessary middleman. Growth puts a company like Tesla (or anyone) in a more favorable position, not less. Economies of scale. Their ability to start a new car company, especially one with new cutting age tech... and be successful... is miraculous. There is a reason why everyone else fails at that.

That last one is ridiculous! The sales force is mostly "trained" (and not by Toyota) to extract maximum $$$ from customer wallets. They are not experts on the vehicles!

Size is not detrimental in any way, exactly the opposite.

 

It’s all politics now, in my state you can sell a new vehicle without it goi g through a dealer. All due to lobbies and back door political bribes.

 

For me I think this a model like this would work in todays environment. Dealers should focus on the final delivery, preparation, maintenance and the warranty aspect of the business and get out of new sales altogether. If they want to set up used vehicle sales that is their business like any other private used vehicle sales company.

These DPMW centers would hold sufficient stock so that people can go in and look at the new vehicle they want and test drive it if they want too (no different that current state of affairs at some dealerships now that don't have any supply) but that stock is not for sale until the next model year starts to roll out. The DPMV can choose how they want to market those "used" test vehicles when the time comes.

Things such as colors for interior/exterior finishes would be available for you by way of sample books. You then go back and order on line with the options you want directly from the manufacturer along with an ETA for delivery to your selected DPMW. The price you pay for vehicle delivery and taxes etc. is based on the DPMW you choose to pick the vehicle up from. Non refundable deposits by a certain date after the order has been placed would need to be put into effect so that vehicles don't get built for someone who has backed out.

This model could significantly reduce the footprint area for new vehicle storage area, reduce damages by weather or criminals at night damaging vehicles or stealing cats. Not to mention dealing with salespeople who don't know the product and just came from working at McDonalds. Maybe I am just dreaming again!

 

I was a proponent of dealerships until my last service;
engine oil/filter
trans service drain & fill
T-case oil change
Front and rear diff oil changes
Serpentine belt
Rear pads, and rotors

$2,157,87 ! I am just confessing this now , took a long time for the shame I felt to subside. Which leads to my oil change yesterday that I did myself;

3 screws that hold the front plastic to the skid plate- missing, I'm still leary of searching how many bolts hold the skid plate on, cause I only had to remove three. The metal clip that locks the filter housing was bent out of the way AND

the earth stopped spinning momentarily when I finally muscled up enough force to remove the filter housing !

I will feel shame again when it's time to buy another vehicle, but that will be the last time I set foot in a dealership until I need another vehicle. If I live that long.

 

Ouch, that's a nasty bill. Not everyone has the facilities or the skillset to do it themselves but those that do it can save you a lot of money.

 

Was trying to take the easy way out, but that is off the table now !