How does auto manufacturing survive?

You tell me, I was just pointing out that the claim that Tesla has repairs all figured out, might not be as clear cut and perfect as it seems.

 

There is a ton of supply of some models. Just not the ones we want

 

You can repair a Porsche and a Ferrari at an independent shop, and the independent shop can get the tools and software they need to repair from the auto manufacturers.

This isn't about convenience of repair thru the manufacturer, its about having the right and access to the parts, special tools and software needed to repair outside of the manufactures little bubble. Its not a new concept, and manufactures of cars, tractors etc try to get around this all the time, and it takes a lawsuit and state laws to bring things back around again. As a relatively new automaker Tesla should have known this already and it should not have been a problem, EXCEPT that the manufacturer loves to use being the only one that can repair a vehicle as a profit driver and tried to skirt around laws every few years..

 

Maybe where you are from or in your world, but I worked right next door to these guys for a few years, and it was full of Porshe's all day long every day. And every once in a while there would be a Ferrari or two on the rack. Comes to mind because I would BS with the guys in the shop when I wasn't busy and check out some of the cars.

Some of the guys working there were German and since I grew up there I enjoyed talking to them.

https://roccoseuropeangarage.com/buckhead/porsche-repair/?keyword=atlanta porsche repair&gclid=Cj0KCQjwlPWgBhDHARIsAH2xdNc95m3J8TO7AmaFg8WrLv27kWpI33MOzbJnGtyqc0ZcxtX1j2ItqSEaAsJAEALw_wcB

 

Only the great Zoltar knows!!!

 

It is an independent repair facility, could you link the site that gives you manufacturer approved alternative and certified Porsche repair facilities, I can't seem to find the link, nor have I ever seen something similar for any other manufacturer.

Unless I am missing something, you have shops that are owned and run by the manufacturer, or franchisee (dealership) and you have independent shops that specialize in different brands etc, and then your general repair shops.

When you say no one would take their vehicle to anyone but Porsche, I take that to mean the dealership service facility.

What Tesla is doing since they have no dealerships, they are doing what would normally be dealership service and repair that their facilities they approve. Which all manufactures do, what they are not doing is allowing shops, such as the shop I listed, to obtain the software and parts etc to repair the vehicles.

Also to be clear, the manufacturer does not normally "train" independent shops if they do, that would be the first I have heard or seen.

In the link I put above, nowhere that I can find is there any kind of advertising that the garage is "Porsche" approved and certified...you would think if that was the case, it would be front and center....but who knows...

 

I wasn't talking about manufacturer authorized collision centers, I know what those are.. From Porsche themselves.
The program encompasses a network of factory-approved collision facilities, each trained and equipped to provide COLLISION services that match the quality of your Porsche automobile.

I was talking about general mechanic services....Where is the list for that?

 

Angie's List.

 

There ya go!...lol

 

There isn't one that I know of, just places that have a good reputation for taking care of Porsches (and other similar brands) when you get fed up with the dealer. Used to have an awesome dealer that I could trust, but both ownership and General Manager changed and its now pretty much worthless. I have a pair of indy shops that I use when I can. Of course Porsche still has some things that are proprietary in terms of parts and programming tools that can't be done by other than authorized dealers, which is just a PITA.

Back to the original topic, and speaking of Porsche, just ran across this one: "We will see significant price increases in the middle of the year for the new model year. The increased costs incurred by transitioning to electrified vehicles is one of the main drivers behind the price increase.

Honestly? The cost of making electric vehicles is the driver for across the board price increases? SMH.

 

Yeah, I knew there wasn't one...lol

They have to raise the cost of everything else to make up for the losses they are taking in the EV transition. This is one of the consequences to forcing by Govt order a market to change before the market is actually ready to change.

 

They can always do what dodge did, release a vehicle in 2017 and say it's gonna be the baddest thing ever and will never be topped and then 6 years later do the same thing.

Btw these demon 170 are 97k MSRP but they get marked up 100-200k+ easily. So your looking at 200-300k just to ride, some other dealers actually do bidding wars as well, who knows what the ceiling will be for this car

Are they truly limited run cars or the mfg will release another run of them a few years down the line?

Yes lawsuits are starting from the previous hellcat/demon owners of 2017

 

They don't really want to do it.

They are bribed by the corporations to force people to pay for it.

See my sig. It's all a scam.

 

Just finished up a pretty good article on cost of manufacturers going to electric vehicles, this one mostly Ford:

Ford just revealed it expects to lose $3 billion – so far – on “electrification.” Ford said it expects to lose more billions – through at least 2026.

To make money on the Lightning – as opposed to losing it – Ford would probably have to ask at least $80,000 for it.

Meanwhile, Ford’s chief financial officer, John Lawlor, says “electrification” will proceed, no matter what it costs.

and here's the rub: You cannot make money building nothing but cars that 90 percent of the potential market cannot afford. Yet that is precisely what “electrification” amounts to and that appears to be the point. By getting the car companies to build cars 90 percent of the people cannot afford, you get 90 percent of the people out of cars.

Back to the OPs point, in doing this the automakers will be complicit in their own demise.

 

They already control us. Except it’s not the government. Those people can be voted out. When was the last time an oil company built a new refinery in the USA? Look at the oil company profits for 2022, and 2023 will top those profits.

 

Toyota fleet sales went up over 13% last year. This trickles down to dealer sales and keeping the prices inflated. Last time my nephew rented a car they offered him a new Tundra. He ordered a midsize suv. They were out, so he pulled up in a new Tundra for the same rental fee as the smaller suv. Way nicer vehicle over a crappy small suv.

 

It's a scam!

 

I am not arguing with you. I really want to know how that would be exerting control over us if you don't mind explaining?

 

Yessir, EVs are the future because consumers are making free choices to go in that direction because they decided all by themselves that they're awesome! Totally not a government driven thing, not at all! This is free markets at work.

https://justthenews.com/videos/bide...osing-americans-buy-electric-cars-alternative

 

I think the the control factor comes in because environmental radicals hate free and independent travel and want people on busses and trains. If people won't do that willingly, next best thing is to force them to eventually depend on scarce, rationed electricity that restricts how often they can be on the roads.

"you wanted to run errands today? Sorry, Grid's over stressed so no charging allowed but feel free to jump on the bus if it's urgent."

 

For starters, Toyota had an abysmal 1st quarter. Their sales are down almost 10%, while almost every manufacturer posted solid growth, some of them double digit.
Now, let's look at issue from the general automotive industry standpoint.

- Through the COVID supply chain crisis, manufacturers and dealers learned that they can make more money by limiting supply. Dealers can sell at or above MSRP, and manufacturers don't need to give incentives (both, to the consumers and to the dealers). Limited supply is a good thing for profit margins. (The same applies to gasoline. Oil firms are deliberately keeping extraction and refining constrained so that they can inflate prices. Oil companies have reported record profits over the past two years.)

- While EVs are actually cheaper to make than ICE cars, manufacturers need to invest in retooling their plants. The money is coming from current sales of gasoline powered cars. Hence prices will stay high.

Now, the situation is particularly bad for Toyota.

- Toyota misjudged demand for hybrids. So they have excess capacity to make non-hybrid vehicles, but not enough battery supply for hybrids. Also, you can't simply switch production from Camry to, let's say, RAV4 Prime. In addition to batteries, you need to retool the entire production line for a new model. This costs hundreds of millions.

- To make things worse, Toyota didn't work with battery suppliers to increase capacity and build relationships. Other car manufacturers spent the past few years working with battery manufacturers to create partnerships and secure long-term battery supply.

- Toyota is 3 to 5 years behind other large manufacturers in BEV technology. They need to invest money at a much faster rate to catch up. But Toyota is the most indebted auto manufacturer in the world. So coming up with the money they need won't be easy. In contrast, Tesla has essentially zero debt.

- Last, but not least, Toyota is capacity constrained for vehicles people want, and has excess capacity for vehicle consumers are not interested in. Consumers want good 3-row SUVs like KIA Telluride, not an undersized, wimpy Highlander. Nobody wants Camrys, Corollas or Prius anymore. Corolla is becoming car rental companies vehicle of choice, just like Chrysler 200 and Nissan Altima were 10 years ago.

Here is my prediction for the next 3 to 5 years.

- Hyundai/KIA will overtake Toyota. Toyota will fall to 3rd or 4th place, behind VW and Hyundai/KIA for sure.

- BYD will buy Toyota. Toyota is following the same path GM did 20 years ago. They will become an easy takeover target. Toyota is already buying BEV technology from BYD, and will become more dependent on this Chinese partner. Buying Toyota will give BYD access to their global sales network.

 

Also, I've never seen a canopy over an EV charge station. There's a new one being built near me, no canopy. WTH, there's this thing called 'weather'. I wouldn't want to be fooling around with slow apps in pouring rain or snow.

 

Automakers adapt to changing times or fail.

 

Hydrogen tech is way behind EV’s right now. After a better grid is built for charging stations things will progress quickly. Major box stores and grocery stores are signing up.

 

If EV is the future than the future is gonna be horrible!!

 

For the majority of private, personal vehicle owners, electricity is clearly the most convenient and economical path away from fossil fuels. With every years:

• Battery costs keep going down. While 5 years ago BEVs were a luxury item, now several manufacturers are bringing BEV vehicles for the masses. VW, Tesla, BYD, GM all have announced that they will offer BEVs in the $25k to $35k range.
• Batteries' capacities are growing with continued research and development.
• Charging times are getting shorter. It's likely that within next 2 years we will see charging times in the order of 15 min for a 250 miles trip. A 15 min stop every 4 hrs is something that most drivers will be OK with.

A recent analysis by the Canadian government concluded that the cost per mile of hydrogen will be between 2 and 4 times higher than electric cars. This is true today and will remain this way for foreseeable future based on both current technologies as well as expected development over the next 20 years. This is just because the process to produce hydrogen as well as energy recovery from hydrogen is less efficient than purely electric energy cycles. You can't beat physics and third law of thermodynamics is a bit*h.

Now, that doesn't mean that hydrogen won't be used at all. It may find a good use in some niche categories, especially those where high energy density represents an economic advantage. A good example is aviation. Hydrogen has about 3x the energy density of petroleum-derived jet fuel. So 50 tons of hydrogen offer about the same range as 150 tons of jet fuel. 100 tons of extra payload can easily offset the higher fuel price. Another example may be commercial long-distance trucking, especially with driverless trucks. The ability of running a truck over a distance of 1000 miles without stopping could offset higher fuel cost. Rail transport is another example. These applications don't require a dense network of hydrogen fueling stations, which are very expensive to build and operate. But for an average personal car owner the advantage of having a "gas station" at home is a huge benefit.

 

hydrogen has its own big problems. biggest issue is too much hydrogen loss into the air will interact with the ozone layer once you pass a certain threshold. below that level its benefical.

https://jalopnik.com/new-hydrogen-research-reminds-us-humanity-just-cant-win-1850303466

 

But the TV tells me it's the president that makes gas prices.

 

Stop watching Fox News, LOL.

 

erm stop watching any tv news for that matter