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Front Sway Bar Delete?

Discussion in '3rd Gen Tundras (2022+)' started by TheManderson, Mar 17, 2023.

  1. Mar 17, 2023 at 7:16 PM
    #1
    TheManderson

    TheManderson [OP] Former Tundra Owner

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    Question for those of you who wheel your lifted 3rd Gen Tundras… have any of you deleted the front sway bar?

    It should increase articulation, but I’m concerned about the effect on handling and, particularly, towing (I tow a 4000lb travel trailer). Plus, so far, the only rubbing I’ve noticed since adding the TRD lift and 37” BFGs is on the front sway bar - so a delete would get rid of that.

    Also, all of the aftermarket skid plates I’ve seen are incompatible with sway bar drops - which seem odd to me, btw, since I would think that most of us who wheel a Tundra seriously enough to buy a full set of aftermarket skid plates are also lifting the truck, which, done properly, requires a sway bar drop to retain it.

    Suggestions?
     
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  2. Mar 17, 2023 at 8:02 PM
    #2
    Cruzer

    Cruzer Wheeling Full Size

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    If you really wheel, then get rid of it. You’ll get used to how it drives.
     
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  3. Mar 17, 2023 at 8:05 PM
    #3
    ArticTundra

    ArticTundra New Member

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    I’ve never ran a sway bar on my Tacoma. 2007. You will notice a large increase in body roll and you’ll be more susceptible to overturning if you need to make a “Moose Turn” but if you’re a good driver you should be able to manage.

    the benefits of removal, like increased handling and articulation, are worth the trade off.

    I’ll remove from my tundra when it arrives. At least for a little while to see how she responds.
     
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  4. Mar 17, 2023 at 11:15 PM
    #4
    rruff

    rruff New Member

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    On my 2nd gen I could feel more body roll with it off... then I upgraded shocks and did a 2" front lift... and it's awesome. Planted and responsive, handles great. I feel the little bumps more, but that's the only tradeoff. I highly recommend using shock valving for control rather than swaybars.
     
  5. Mar 18, 2023 at 7:47 AM
    #5
    DexterL

    DexterL New Member

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    From what I have heard, these trucks do not handle well without a sway bar, even with heavily upgraded suspension- too big and heavy
     
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  6. Mar 18, 2023 at 8:43 AM
    #6
    rruff

    rruff New Member

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    Weight isn't an issue that can't be solved with suspension and tires. The "upgrade" needs to have high and digressive damping.
     
  7. Mar 18, 2023 at 10:06 AM
    #7
    Taikowaza

    Taikowaza New Member

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    Now that my sway bar is below my skidplate, I’m interested in learning how to remove the sway bar and test the truck w/o it.

    I’ve heard that the ride becomes incredible without the sway bar in terms of off-roading and general suspension travel.

    Have also heard this can be dangerous when driving or turning at high speeds but I don’t have any personal experience with this.

    I hope to learn more about this topic and appreciate any advice!
     
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  8. Mar 18, 2023 at 10:30 AM
    #8
    rruff

    rruff New Member

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    Probably good to describe why shock valving is important when you remove the swaybars....

    Apparently most people prefer the ride you get with low shock damping (particularly in compression)+ sway bars. This does a good job of responding to small bumps while also keeping sway from getting ridiculous in corners and sudden movements. This is what stock trucks have... even the Pros since Toyota knows that a "soft" street ride is the highest priority. One bad thing about the swaybar even on the street is that it restricts independent movements of each wheel on the same axle. For instance, if you hit a pothole with one wheel, the lateral jolt will be greater than if you didn't have the swaybar. For bumps that cross your line of travel like pavement cracks and speed bumps, the swaybar does nothing and doesn't interfere.

    Progressive vs Digressive damping: Progressive damping means that the damping vs speed (speed of shock movement) curve has a bit of an exponential rise. Digressive means the curve is steeper for slow movements, then the rate of damping increase with speed levels off. Linear is... linear. Based on what I've heard, in standard configuration, Kings are in the progressive camp, Fox tend to be linear, and Icon are digressive... but all the top coilovers can be custom tuned however you like. I have Ironman FC Pros which have high digressive damping.

    If you are taking the swaybars off and want to maintain good handling and control, then high digressive compression damping is the way to go. Why? Because this will have the highest slow speed damping; and what this gets you is well controlled stability in sudden maneuvers. From the shock's perspective this is very slow speed compared to most bumps... and the shock will resist this motion. The result is very good stability and control in accident avoidance. At the same time the shock will respond just fine if you hit a sharp bump.

    You will still get some sway in sweeping curves because that is a steady force, but I haven't been bothered by it at all. First thing I did after installing the shocks was a loop through mountain switchbacks on rough pavement, followed by a loop on rocky dirt switchbacks that was much rougher. It was amazing. On pavement I just kept going faster and it felt like a damn sports car... so much better than stock. In the dirt I was very impressed with how fast I could go and feel in total control. Just feels very planted, with none of the weird undulations, wallowing, or underdamped bouncing and vibrations I got with the stock setup.

    The downside is that you will feel little bumps more all the time. You know... the normal ones on pavement, the little irregularities and imperfections. This doesn't bother me a bit, because they are small bumps after all and easy for me to ignore. I'd guess most people feel differently though, else stock trucks would be more like this from the factory. If you want a soft street ride, it would probably be best to have milder progressive or linear damping and keep your swaybars.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2023
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  9. Mar 18, 2023 at 10:56 AM
    #9
    rruff

    rruff New Member

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    I've not done it, but I think you can just disconnect one side to test it. They are easy to take completely off as well.
     
  10. Mar 18, 2023 at 11:35 AM
    #10
    TheManderson

    TheManderson [OP] Former Tundra Owner

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    Btw, assuming you both mean deleting the front sway bar and leaving the rear on? If you look at testing done by Tinkerer's Adventure here on YouTube, he ended up with the best articulation (on his FJ Cruiser) with his front sway bar removed and with a heavier duty rear sway bar installed.
     
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  11. Mar 18, 2023 at 12:31 PM
    #11
    rruff

    rruff New Member

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    Mine didn't come with a rear sway.

    Ya, I saw that video. The take away is that it shouldn't hurt max articulation to leave it on, but handling and ride are different issues. The reason it doesn't hurt max articulation is because the rear inherently articulates more and easier (less resistance) than the IFS front. By adding a rear sway (which is really just a spring that resists articulation) the rear still articulated the same amount, but it forced the front to articulate more. Maybe good for rock crawling, but I doubt it will help ride or handling. There must be a good reason why everytime there is one swaybar, it's always on the front.
     
  12. Mar 18, 2023 at 12:37 PM
    #12
    Acedude

    Acedude New Member

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    Removing swaybars you better have stout shocks and springs front and rear.. Think about an emergency lane change at 70mph on an interstate loaded up with your family. I ADDED a Hellwig rear swaybar on the '05 Tundra.
     
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  13. Mar 18, 2023 at 12:43 PM
    #13
    TheManderson

    TheManderson [OP] Former Tundra Owner

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    Of course, and, btw, 3rd Gens come with sway bars front and rear.
     
  14. Mar 18, 2023 at 1:36 PM
    #14
    Ponderosa_Pine

    Ponderosa_Pine

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    The sway bars are easy to remove in general. I’d say take it off and drive around the block and highway to see if you like it. On the gen2 with totally stock suspension, removing the sway bar led to a better ride but alot more body roll and semi dangerous at highway quick maneuvers. However with upgraded rear suspension (sumo springs/airbags/etc) this was mostly negated. With front upgraded suspension this also removes most negative side effects. I removed mine on a 2017 and 2021 permanently without issue.
     
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  15. Mar 18, 2023 at 2:01 PM
    #15
    4mm

    4mm New Member

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    I drove without a front sway bar for about a week, mostly city/hwy on smooth roads, in my 08 crew cab GMC.

    It felt smooth since the front felt independent but watch out for the semi-abrupt lanes changes: Too much sway and I was driving solo.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2023
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  16. Mar 19, 2023 at 10:00 AM
    #16
    LouALouA

    LouALouA New Member

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    Silly me. I thought it needed a beefier sway bar. :) Because it wallows like a land yacht in the twisties. But its the wifes truck and she likes it the way it is.
     
  17. Mar 20, 2023 at 10:49 AM
    #17
    mass-hole

    mass-hole New Member

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    Why not just pull one swaybar end link when you plan to wheel. It looks easy enough to do. Looks like you could just turn the wheel and pop off two nuts. You might not even need to remove the link fully, just remove the bar side and push out of the way. I just did it on my F150 this weekend while in moab. Towed my 5500 lb trailer down with the bar on and popped off one end link at the camp site in about 5 minutes with an 18 mm socket.

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Mar 20, 2023 at 12:53 PM
    #18
    TheManderson

    TheManderson [OP] Former Tundra Owner

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    My point in removing it was also for clearance for my 37” tires and for aftermarket skid plates, not just articulation, hence contemplating removing the front sway bar entirely
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2023
  19. Mar 20, 2023 at 4:59 PM
    #19
    Ponderosa_Pine

    Ponderosa_Pine

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    If it’s like the gen2 you’d have to remove both end links otherwise one of the lower control arms would be attached to the vehicle frame. If you remove both end links then the sway bar ends droop down and needs something to hold it up and would likely interfere with the skid plate/articulation.
     
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  20. Mar 21, 2023 at 7:50 AM
    #20
    mass-hole

    mass-hole New Member

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    Wouldnt the swaybar just move with the one control arm its attached to by pivoting in the bushings? Or is it somehow fixed the the frame?
     
  21. Mar 21, 2023 at 7:52 AM
    #21
    alb1k

    alb1k Always Coming From Take Me Down

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    It's good
    Weight can be an issue doing 80 on the freeway when you are cut off.
     
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  22. Mar 21, 2023 at 8:01 AM
    #22
    Black Wolf

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    Anti sway bar end link quick disconnects come to mind....
     
  23. Mar 21, 2023 at 8:24 AM
    #23
    rruff

    rruff New Member

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    An issue for what? My truck handles great with no swaybar... at least compared to stock. Control in quick maneuvers is much better; you just need the right shocks. If you just take off the swaybars off and you have soft shocks, then ya... that won't do it.
     
  24. Mar 21, 2023 at 8:27 AM
    #24
    alb1k

    alb1k Always Coming From Take Me Down

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    Increased body roll, which can reduce the amount of control.
     
  25. Mar 21, 2023 at 8:41 AM
    #25
    rruff

    rruff New Member

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    It's the opposite. Did you read the long post above, #8? In sweeping turns it will lean more, but it's very controllable. In sudden maneuvers it's way more stable than stock; no comparison.
     
  26. Mar 21, 2023 at 8:53 AM
    #26
    alb1k

    alb1k Always Coming From Take Me Down

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    It's the sweeping turns at high speed I would be most concerned with on any shock.

    Did you read this? Also from Accutune.

    Handling:
    Handling is a tricky one, digressive valving will provide better handling than progressive valving due to the higher force at 2 in/sec. Although shocks and springs will impact handling, but that should not be their primary responsibility. Shocks and springs are the only tuneable elements that control performance over the various suspension events and should be tuned to provide the best ride possible. Handling should be tuned by the sway bar since that is it’s primary responsibility.

    My sway bar is leaning against the wall in the garage, btw.
     
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  27. Mar 21, 2023 at 10:05 AM
    #27
    rruff

    rruff New Member

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    Why? Where is the situation where that is so important? Sudden maneuvers when dodging things seems like a higher priority. I have plenty of experience pushing the pace in switchbacks, and it does great. The truck doesn't roll enough to bother me. It rolls a lot less than it did with stock shocks and no swaybar; maybe about the same as with it? The big difference is when I hit a bump in a turn; now it just absorbs it and that's it. Not once have I thought there were any unwanted motions that needed to be addressed.

    BTW, just so it's clear, my truck's ride is on the opposite end of the spectrum from "soft and floaty". It's firm, planted, controlled. Never wallows or bounces. Apparently most people prefer soft and floaty, so...
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2023
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  28. Mar 21, 2023 at 10:17 AM
    #28
    Shave Ice

    Shave Ice New Member

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    I run no front or rear sway bars on my 2022 and it seems just fine. Increased body roll, but quite manageable. I live on big island so I’m not doing 80 on a freeway. Typical driving is probably 35-50mph.
     
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  29. Mar 21, 2023 at 10:19 AM
    #29
    alb1k

    alb1k Always Coming From Take Me Down

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    Well, I think if it works, that’s perfect. My only point that regardless of the set up, the sway bar does have some advantages even off-road so anyone that’s going to pull it should just be aware of the give-and-take. I see a lot of video where a sudden turn turns into a big ass turn. I like to go fast in the desert to the extent the truck will allow I’m running kings in the front and fox in the rear so both progressive are you running icon?
     
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  30. Mar 21, 2023 at 10:21 AM
    #30
    alb1k

    alb1k Always Coming From Take Me Down

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    It's good
    I’ve also beefed the crap out of my bump stops…
     

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