Engine Failure

My experience for replacements is in my general area, which is the the same general area as Toyota HQ. I've worked with 3 dealerships here on replacements for other vehicles, and we've always sent someone out to verify.

Maybe its different for areas that aren't near any of the Toyota engineering offices? I know we've sent people out in Detroit and Huntsville as well.

Whatever it is, I'm trying to get visibility on this user's ticket to get info. He's sent me the VIN and relevant info via PM.

 

I know this an unpopular opinion, but a rebuilt motor can be more reliable than a factory built motor. Yes, factory built motors have come a long way and are very reliable, but look at it this way:

Factory built motors are mass produced on assembly lines by multiple people, many of while I’d presume are more focused on not messing up their job than checking the work of others. It easy to say ‘not my job, not my fault’ when something is a little out.

A rebuilt motor is hand built by one or two or three people who follow the process start to finish. Each part is (or should be) inspected personally rather than just pulling it from the bin assuming the qc inspector did his job.

So while the whole thing sucks, as long as the persons doing the job are well qualified and actually follow correct procedures, you could end up with a better motor.

 

How long does it take a qualified motorist to overhaul a turbo V-6 engine? How much he gets paid for an hour? Local plumber rates are somewhere around $200-300. A welder takes $450. I'd expect around those numbers for an experienced motorist.

Say, he is able to overhaul the whole engine in 3 full days. 3 * 4 * 8 * $300 = ~$10k. Without parts and consumables.

 

Not always the case, sometimes the tech assembling the engine is an idiot. That happened with my 2017 BRZ a few years ago and the engine grenaded a week after I got it back

 

Hmmm. I would think that having my motor assembled by people who are setup with the appropriate tools, adjusted to the appropriate spec that spend all day doing nothing but assembling these motors in a standardized process would yield a better result than some rando dealer tech taking his first whack at it with whatever tools he has at his disposal reading through a FSM how to do it for the first time, on a mish mash of your old failed motor parts and some new parts that were sent to them.

 

Even if he manages to do it right the first time, he never tells you the truth: "Half of parts ate 90% of their life because of oil starvation, but they are still within factory allowed limits, so Toyota commanded to put them back in.". So you get your engine fixed, but suddenly it is worn out like a 350k miles engine, not 35k.

 

Wow. That's hard to fathom for me personally. I investigate field returns for military hardware and I've NEVER seen another engineer verify torque on assemblies after they've been repaired since we have the technicians do that.

I guess every employer is different plus you work in automotive and I don't.

 

I don't think anyone disagrees that this is a massive inconvenience for OP and it absolutely sucks, but "made whole" is defined as "paying sufficient damages to put someone back where they would have been without the fault of another." OP already mentioned the warranty coverage (standard expectation), transport of the truck between dealerships, and reimbursement of associated expenses...which fits "made whole" to a T.

It sounds like you're expecting punitive damages or for someone to go way above and beyond out of pure good will. The dealer could step in and provide that, but the warranty here served exactly its purpose of "making whole" and protected OP despite being incredibly inconvenient.

If you do your own work - have you ever installed a bolt wrong? Got left with an extra screw? Mis-measured something? Your expectation of 100% accuracy and perfection during assembly is unrealistic, especially with such complicated vehicles the government and mass market are demanding (tech, multimedia, required safety, fuel economy, etc.). Toyota wrote the book on root cause analysis and we're lucky to have @wedemmoez here to shed some light on the process, despite personal risk.

We're all enthusiasts here. We want the Tundra to be great and it sucks when it's not perfect. But trust that Toyota is doing what they can to resolve not only OP's issue, but anything that might be even remotely systemic.

 

My primary reason for sharing info here is so y'all see whats happening behind the scenes and that Toyota isn't intentionally ignoring all of the issues that are being found. We just don't have a team that can sit on these forums and provide technical information. I'm jumping on here in my free time to see where I can help out.

 

And it is appreciated. Please don't endanger your job trying to provide information.

 

IMO it’s time for long blocks (pan to covers) to be available for this type of repair from Toyota. Labor time drastically reduced, chance of error drastically reduced, less down time and a more satisfied customer. Not saying technicians aren’t skilled enough, but it’s hard to beat the quality of an assembly line. There’s also the fact that I have seen some “technicians” that shouldn’t touch a car with a ten foot pole.

 

Maybe the choice should exist, but this would likely lead to less root-cause analysis done on the [failed] engine, drastically higher costs of shipping, and cluttered parts storage rooms.
Would you want a full heart transplant if you, say, just needed a stint but the doctor went "meh, bad heart - rip it all out" ? The deep dives and teardowns lead to the best long-term solutions for everyone.

Agreed on the "technicians" - sadly still a consequence of no one driving for 2 years. A staggering percentage of qualified techs (across all companies) found COVID-proof jobs and never went back to a dealership. Build trust with your salesperson and your service-writer. Something feels off? Drive the extra miles for another dealer / better experience. The business is built on feedback.

 

drop it likes it hot and trade it when able

 

Obviously it would be something that would have to be reviewed and approved. And for example for shipping and storage, an engine drops a valve and trashed the head and block. Now you have to ship a short block, head, gaskets, needed valves… all separately and now that’s a cluster compared to an engine on a pallet. An engine could be simply sent back and and be reviewed by the eggheads who designed it (like should be done with these tundra bearing jobs). A lifter, timing chain, vvt gear, those are examples of stints, I’m talking about catastrophic failure but we don’t even have that long block option. Other manufacturers have been doing it forever.

 

I managed to make it in to the nearest dealer to buy oil filters. Asked the parts counter guy how the new Tundra was being received. He did a good job of being diplomatic, and said he’s glad they went back to a spin on oil filter…. beyond that he mentioned they’ve seen quite a few problems with the new one.

I also notice they are getting used Gen 3’s in stock. People trade trucks all the time, but seems like if you loved the vehicle and could afford it you wouldn’t trade it in less than 6 months after you bought it.

 

That's typical of just about any vehicle and could also reflect repo acceleration.

 

Absolutely true.

Also assuming a big risk in finding the right guy or shop with experience building your engine of choice. Be prepared to pay $$$ to a guy with the equipment and know how to do a full in house rebuild where they deck the block and heads, line hone cam tunnels, line hone crank journals, and balance rotating assemblies to a gnats ass. Then go through and measure every valve for travel, every valve spring for compression, shim the spring seats if needed etc.

You’re going to get a balanced and blue printed hand assembled engine. Done right it will make more net power, run smoother, and last longer.

It’s also going to cost you more money, because dudes who have those skills don’t give their time away cheaply.

 

Very possible. Auto loans in delinquency are at rates not seen since about 2009-2010.

No doubt exacerbated by the absurd pricing on new vehicles these days.

If I were to buy a TRD Pro at MSRP and finance 100% at current rates my monthly payment would exceed my mortgage payment with escrow on a 5 bedroom 3 bath, 2,976sq-ft home with a view of Battle Mountain, the Fall River, across the street from the biggest park in town, and a few blocks from both private and public schools. Granted I bought back in 2013 when the market was down and the place has probably doubled in value, but damn…. a $1300-$1400 payment on a truck that will lose value?

Maybe I’m a poor but that is outrageous. Who the hell signs up for that? I’ll make low 6 figures this year, or should, and the wife works too. I don’t view that as something I can afford while still achieving my other financial goals, and for our area we are comfortably exceeding average income.

Is everyone else secretly making $200,000+ per year to pay for 2 new vehicles and a house?

Or are they living beyond their means, not saving money for rainy days, and not saving for retirement?

 

I’m just gonna go ahead and say it, ain’t no way in hell a dealer flat rate tech will rebuild an engine with more precision and care and to the standards of a fresh off the assembly line engine, especially under warranty pay

 

That’s my point in all this, OP should receive an engine from the assembly line. Not something rebuilt at your local dealer. Perhaps there is a Master ASE tech ….

 

Beats me. I haven't had a vehicle payment in probably well over 20 years and back then we bought used. I've heard that's a stupid strategy and you should borrow and invest the cash. To each their own. I just worry about my own finances. This topic always derails a thread.

 

Think you crossed the line into societal issues. It's crammed into every facet of advertisement. Buy a new car, finance etc. It's okay to incur debt because the other advertisements tell us how we can reduce your debt to pennies on the dollar. The other part of this is the good old government will pay for you when you retire.

Wife and I hit financial independence about ten years ago. When we married, didn't have two pennies to spare. Everything we have is due to hard work and making sound financial decisions. We never bought a car with having more than a $250 payment and always paid the note off early.

 

I see it the opposite of you. I worry if I pay it off and shortly after it becomes a total loss then that's money lost. I had a talk with my neighbor about financing stuff. He played his cards right and has several rental properties and a side gig. Anyways he recently beat cancer (2-3 years now). He told me that he now finances everything as long as possible. Obviously he not going to make a financial mistake to ruin him, but if he does buy something, finance it as long as possible. He prefers to spend his money on things that matter. Having a life changing experience has changed the way he lives. Enjoy today because tomorrow is never promised. I am going through a perfect example of just that. I am replacing my house roof. It's a $17k cost. You think I pulled out $17k to pay it in full, hell no. I got a no interest CC for 21 months to pay for it. Another thing I have been doing for a while is not using my debit card. I use cash back cards. Pay them off at the end of the month and make money on top of it.

 

I just had a talk with my neighbor. He told me to get the eff out of his game room and knock on the front door next time.

 

Same, I’m not judging anyone for their finances or decisions. I’m just perplexed by what I see driving around vs what US Census data tells me about average income. I can’t make the numbers match at an even higher income than most, with what is probably a lower mortgage than most, AND still save 10-15% of my income to invest for retirement, AND build up cash savings.

Maybe what I’m observing is a bunch of people more well off than me, in which case awesome for them. Alternatively I’m observing a lot of people with different financial goals than me, and that is fine too adults get to make adult decisions with their hard earned money. I worry that I’m seeing a lot of guys who are car/truck poor and over leveraged, again not judging just hate seeing people put themselves in a bind.

Not sure what the percentages are and it’s very possible I have bias here because I’d like a new vehicle so I tend to notice new vehicles and wonder how anyone justifies them at current prices.

 

Ummm.... Nevermind.

 

Uhhhhhh…. Just keep the full coverage rider on your auto insurance policy….

 

He does have a point, why drop 50-60k or more cash on a new vehicle when you can invest it and do monthly payments on a depreciating asset, let’s face it this new Toyota isn’t going last compared to the older generation, and we’re all pretty much effed once parts become obsolete or gas becomes unaffordable

 

2 or 3 out of 70k produced is a thing ?

 

2 or 3 out of the incredibly small sample size represented here seems like a thing. If we had 70k active (3rd Gen) members posting? Then 2 or 3 is an anomaly.