General Supercharger Thread

I know there were a few issues reported when the Harrop first debuted about the cores in the blower leaking, but by the time I ordered mine last summer the consensus was it was resolved. I wonder if the new ones you replaced the originals with still had the unresolved issues that caused the leak. If it was 2 years ago that they were replaced, I’m guessing nothing was changed with the cores to address the issue.

 

I saw these small heat exchangers with a built in fan used on one of the motortrend TV shows for a build made by Derale performance. I was wondering if it might be worth implementing in series with the factory heat exchanger. The “atomic cool” has an 8” reversible electric fan that moves 500 CFM and draws 4.8 amps. The nice thing about using one with a built in fan instead of relying on the airflow is while sitting at a light, or low speed driving the temp won’t creep up as much. It’s also relatively compact at roughly 12” wide x 10” tall x 4.5” deep.

$245 Derale 15950 Atomic-Cool Remote Cooler,Black

https://www.amazon.com/Derale-15950...c0a-4925-81c6-8a62bc9aacec&pd_rd_i=B004XONUCO

 

I don't know either. Maybe the ones they sent 2 yrs ago still have the same problems.
They claim that Amsoil Coolant dominator and distilled water is not recommended for intercooler systems as they do not have corrosion inhibitors.

I think their coolers don't like inter-chiller or killer chiller.

If they don't cover it by warranty, I'll just go back to TRD, the most reliable SC ever built for 5.7L Toyotas.

 

nice!

I bet this would provide a decent benefit in traffic & such. Houston traffic has my temps all over the place.

I'd like to see some type of gadget that modulates the fan to turn on at low rpms. I bet you computer Jedi's have a solution to that...

 

Well the first I even saw issues reported and Harrop began to recognize the problem and began working to resolve it was in February of 2020, so if you got the replacement cores around that time it’s probably not the revised cores. As an early adopter of a new blower I guess that’s the risk you take. If you can get new cores cheaper than switching to a magnuson/trd I would keep what you have, but if you have a magnuson lying in wait then do as you please I guess. The timeline of how things transpired makes it seem like you may have got replacement cores before Harrop realized there was an issue with them. The magnuson definitely has the longest track record but nothing is flawless, the o-rings on the lid are just as likely to leak causing a similar issue and they are more prone to coupler failures. Other than the initial core issue, the Harrops have an occasional wiring harness issue. Choose your battle I guess. They’re both Eaton TVS blowers, so it’s really just less important ancillary components that will really differentiate the brands.

 

Mine are similar driver side slightly off. Pretty sure normal, nothings out of whack or not functioning it seems.

 

Are you on the 75mm pulley?

 

Which truck in your sig do you have the Harrop on?

 

"sosperformance2/4 lowering kit | 20" method wheels"

I just noticed you lowered! Got any pics of your wheels? I'm having a hard time find a good 20" with the correct off set to sit flush with the fenders

 

What base tables are the areas supposed to be locked? Again just trying to learn things, lol. This is from the tacoma, with the stock before file and the tuned file i was given. Used the Open Compare File button and it highlights the differences in Green. Then the Show Differences button on the table

 

This is my old tune from Viktor. You literally can't do anything besides flash the file.

 

I know and I understand why they lock the files. I'm currently building a tune from scratch.

 

There's a lot that goes into it! I recently took everything I could find and have changed and put it into a PowerPoint just to keep track of all the changes since there's so much little shit.

 

It makes sense that they do. Guess I was coming from a standpoint where they didn't do it on mine, and just threw me off when all the locked talk popped up. The guy that originally did my tune, did so before he started working for OTT, and I bet that he does it now.

 

there's A LOT of good shit in this post, and in comments section. he uses the same VCI Scanner pdi's for the Tundra also. i'm scootter82 there and elsewhere

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/hptuners-the-tacoma-faq.705981/

 

My files look like I can see some things but not others. I can view and even change data in Engine, Engine Diag, Trans, Trans Diag and speedo. Can’t view any data in Fuel Sys, or System, or OS. I also noticed i can only view the files with the MPVI2 plugged in which i had not noticed previously. Honestly though, don’t know what I’m looking at for the most part. Guess I’ll add tuning to the list of automotive related skills I wish I had but haven’t taken time to learn more about yet… vinyl wrapping, window tint, paint correction, welding beyond my dinky flux core…. I have some learnin to do. I wish I had taken advantage of Vo Tech when I was in school lol.

 

Everything you stated is normal. Those tabs don't have anything that applies to the tundra, and likewise the MPVI2 needs to be plugged in (and an internet connection at boot up iirc) which is annoying.

 

Seeing the development of the turbo kit by turbokits.com has me wondering things. What do you think is more likely to have a cooler IAT? A supercharger running 8psi with a water to air intercooler/radiator or a turbo running 8psi with an air to air intercooler?

 

A2A Turbo will likely have cooler IATs...they are much more efficient when moving...sitting in traffic, I'd say it'd be a wash.

 

Agreed the turbo may result in lower temps immediately post blower/turbo, but I’d think water to air (albeit worsened by the glycol) has better heat transfer than strictly air which is why I wonder if that would make up for it on the supercharged system.

 

I think it depends on several things like turbo efficiency and what pulley the blower is running.

On the same application, e.g. Turbo w/A2A vs Turbo w/A2W, Air to Water is better; Holdener discusses in the video posted below (compares at around 8 mins):

https://youtu.be/LGQjRjJrUho

 

Same boost the Turbo will produce higher peak HP, SC is using HP to run.

The temp differences probably wont make a difference even if the turbo runs hotter.

Air to Water looks like it allows you to run cooler longer before it gets heat soaked depending on the size of reservoir.

 

I definitely agree the most efficient supercharger has more parasitic loss compared to most turbochargers, but turbos also suffer from parasitic losses. It’s not all “free horsepower” with turbos if you will, as many seem to convey. There are pumping losses on the exhaust side of the turbo. Adiabatic efficiency of the modern TVS supercharger has a large operating RPM range at 70% efficiency. Turbos top out at 80%? There is no such thing as a free lunch. Below is a link to a good read on turbo efficiency. Is the extra peak power worth the low RPM boost delay on the turbo is what I’m excited to see on the dyno results for this kit. If so…I’ve been wanting to build a tundra for the track as a future hobby.

https://www.compturbotechnology.com/turbocharger-efficiency

 

Agree. No free lunch. Inefficiency is masked by dynamic (centrifugal) displacement of the turbo vs positive displacement of the supercharger.

I'll see if I can link the discussion on another forum they described the Turbo as negatively impacting VE (varies by back pressure and heat build up).

I think folks primarily look at it as recouping "lost" energy hence they don't think of it as having any loss but only gains. With the supercharger it is easier to understand. Make 1000HP but it took 250HP to run the blower it could have potentially been ~1200HP with correctly sized turbos.

Turbo is also dynamic. I think it also matters at what RPM range etc. Not every blower/turbo is good across all ranges. Listening to Holdener he ranks NA < S/C < Twincharge (Blower + Turbo) < Turbo in terms of performance.

My comment on the PSI was really to highlight 8 PSI in comparable Turbo vs SC you'll very likely better top end peak numbers on the Turbo (again depends on the blower + pulley)

I'm curious to see the numbers on the kit too. I think they are using a 70mm for their turbo kit I expect it to come in at around ~3000 RPM or slightly later if they use stock headers.

RE: Track Tundra. If I didn't have a supercharger I would probably go compound turbos.

 

This video talks to turbo back pressure:
https://youtu.be/IpzqpjmOSB8

 

Here is one post talking to back pressure losses; not the thread I was thinking of earlier, any posts by Warpspeed or PatPrimmer is usually gold:
https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=137731

 

question:

say we have an engine running 2500-3500rpm's, heavy load...8psi for both

what system would provide more power? Turbo or S/C?

I suspect it would be near even. maybe a nod to the turbo for it's non-parasitic losses.

My wee brain gets lost when we speak of acceleration tests. that's when the S/C would prevail in those smaller rpm ranges and the turbo is busy spooling. the Turbo wins on the top end every time.

_____

or, say you are cruising down the hwy & you want to pass a slow dude (me). I surmise the S/C would be far more responsive.

am i thinking right?

 

nvm...this post answered all my questions....good timing on the post.

my brain hurts now.

 

What is interesting is I'm finding turbo kits for gas trucks that come with a warning saying not to tow with their kits. I haven't fully researched it but the general warning is you can melt pistons with a poorly designed system; charge temps and cylinder heat.

 

I begin to understand this....heavy load>>>big spooling>>>big boost>>>low-ish rpm.

you would need some Jedi level tuning to manage that.

the low-ish rpms is the bad variable.