General Supercharger Thread

Can't we just do both?

 

The preview of the kit looks like you can have both or at least room for both.....if the engine can handle it.

 

Definitely don’t disagree, I just wonder what benefits a twin turbo kit would have over a supercharger in this application. This drivetrain/truck is never going to be efficient on the gas mileage front and I don’t see even smaller twins giving better (at best equal to) immediate response on takeoff. All the superchargers when turned up can make more power than the stock engine and trans can handle so as it is. I think I still like the blower, and I say that while doing my best to ignore the fact that I spent a ton on mine. Lol

Can’t deny that turbos probably sound cooler (definitely more fun with a manual trans), but that’s also subjective. Superchargers cool factor for me comes from how they’re constructed and also the just pure brute force of positive displacement. They’re pushing that air whether it likes it or not!

 

My love for turbos comes from a drivability standpoint, not necessarily off the line performance. Fuel economy concerns notwithstanding, smaller TTs could be used to deliver power smoothly and quickly down low, without the classic parasitic loss typical of a blower.

The raw force of a blower is fun as hell too though. I've just always loved TT applications. In my manual 2017 Tacoma, my TT kit had me building usable boost in the 1500-2000 rpm range, depending on which gear I was in. It was excellent, and my favorite part was how "OEM" it felt. Not invasive or in your face. It just...was.

Superchargers can be set up and tuned to deliver their power smoothly as well, but there's a quality about them that nonetheless feels raw and even intrusive at times. Definitely love them though.

 

I have to say my blower experience sounds nearly identical to what you describe. From day one of having the blower installed I’ve always felt like it wasn’t even there until I wanted to be reminded of it. Everyone who has driven it has said the same. It literally feels non existent until you start laying into the throttle a bit more and the bypass starts closing. Same situation as you describe in the 1500-2000rpms when cruising highways with rolling hills, the boost gauge goes from a vacuum to 0-1 or 2 PSIG as the load increases and it just lugs along up the hills in cruise control. Put your foot down though and it’s instant wheel spin and savagery. If you go with a blower on your tundra I think you will appreciate the daily drivability and street manners as a daily, even compared to your TT tacoma.

 

I mean, I'm definitely set on the blower. As exciting as even a TT kit would be if that's what they'd announced, I'm kind of over jumping in on brand new turbo kits to production lol (had to do a lot of work to get that TT kit to fit and work right, was a pain). I'm eyeing that new tvs2650 that Magnuson announced. I really want to know if they included a beefier fuel pump for this one...

 

What’s your reasoning on the Mag 2650 over the Harrop?

 

Really just brand recognition. The Harrop vs the Mag 1900 is not really a contest, but when you have two 2650's and I know I'm not interested in forever chasing down evermore power (which the Harrop is probably better poised to deliver), from there it just pretty much comes down to knowing about TRD/Magnuson for significantly longer and being drawn to the Maggy purely because of that. Nothing at all against Harrop though.

Best as I can tell, the Harrop will likely remain more appropriate if you see yourself wanting to chase down additional power via various mods later down the line. I'm basing this off of Harrop's kit components, upgrade path into "stage 2", and Magnuson's track record for appearing to primarily aim to satisfy the group of people who just want to set and forget.

 

Here is an interesting read on upflow vs downflow design and IATs. It also covers coolant flow vs IATs which do show an improvement with increased flow. The figures they quote having tested though are at 1/3 to 1/2 the flow the supplied Bosch pump already supplies though, so I have to wonder if the Bosch already gets it into the territory of diminishing returns if it’s 30 LPM flow, as they compare 7LPM vs 10.5 LPM vs 17.5 LPM.

https://www.harrop-usa.com/blog/supercharger-design-and-inlet-air-temps-myths-busted/31470

 

That’s a good read

I kept hearing that Aussie dudes voice when I read it

 

Honestly the supercharger (process) fixed many of the complaints I had with the truck and made it imo more driver friendly. On a stock truck cruise control feels nearly useless since it was incapable of using 6th gear and even the slightest hill was 4th or even 3rd gear. And then in the process of supercharging and tuning the truck, the weird throttle mapping was fixed so it wasn't as jittery down low. With the exception of premium fuel and being more aware of the trucks health, I don't know if there's any detriments from having supercharged.

 

Getting the throttle mapped sorted is what I'm actually looking towards the most. Especially 1st and 2nd just something not exactly smooth with the acceleration

 

Going to wait it out, guys in Middle East is turbo'ing more, I'm just concern how the manifold hold up with the rough roads and salt we have here, vs butter smooth roads and sand dunes out there, I think we are truly fortunate that we have so many choices available to us.

I just want to run 11s reliably, get 15mpg empty, still offroad, and can tow my travel trailer down to Baja, I mean that's not too much to ask right? /s

I also saw this, https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a...ut-about-the-worlds-first-two-piece-con-rods/

2pcs con-rods, I can see how it'll increase our low-mid range with s/c kits.

 

Question for those with big brakes. I've noticed that the SOS Performance kit now uses the ST-60 Calipers 6 piston. The TRD kit uses the ST-65 6 piston calipers. the ST-65 has slightly larger piston sizes and uses a larger pad. It seems SOS Performance USED to offer ST-65 front calipers and ST-60 rear calipers. Now they only offer ST-60 Front and ST-45 rear (4 piston). Ok, this has me leaning towards TRD Front BBK.

Note: It seems that when TRD updated the part numbers from the old BBK to the new BBK, they listed the wrong sizes for the parts. Old # lists the 6 piston 400mm rotors, new # lists 4 piston and 323mm rotors. Can only confirm that after ordering but internet seems to think the description was entered wrong when part numbers updated...

Anyways, my main question is about unsprung wheel weight. The TRD package has 1 piece rotors that are supposed to be a lot heavier than the 2 piece rotors you can also find. Does that heavier rotor weight have any actual negative performance impacts for our application?

Also there's this ridiculous 8 piston front calipers by KSport

https://ksportusa.com/product/toyota-tundra-supercomp-big-brake-kit-bkty720-863so/

 

What's the weight difference? 5lbs on a 120lb hub/wheel/tire setup and 200lbs for the whole unsprung weight? I'd be shocked if you could actually (and not placebo effect) feel a difference. But less unsprung mass and rotating mass is always a win.

 

It looks like it will use the stock manifold:


Interesting con-rod tech. Tail end looks like there is some doubt it will benefit much. Will still be watching closely if it gets released for the 5.7.

 

I can't find the official weights on either. The internet forums say 400mm TRD rotors are 11lbs each, or maybe it was 11 lbs more...

 

Just as a mental exercise, what would it take, or would it be like to pair the single stage kit with a tvs1900 maggy on a stock pulley?

 

Compound boost has issues (explored this back in the cobra days.) Can it be done sure. But why over complicate it all. One issue is the turbos ability to flow more than the blower. The blower becomes a restriction point. The LS guys did this then just gutted the blower and used it has a manifold and just kept the turbo kit.

 

A properly built kit and spec'd turbo will be more than enough. Turbo tech has come along way where lag is minimal.

 

After installing the SOS kit over the last weekend I can tell you that the one-piece rotors that come with the Stop Tech kit are heavier than the stockers - 380mm?. How much? 10-15 lbs each seems a good guess. The calipers are much lighter though. Net-net I would say the unsprung weight went up a little. I did loose the weight of the rock/dust guards......fwiw

 

Has anyone tried any of these intercooler additives? Are they legit or just marketing?

 

Not sure about those products, mainly cause I’m not sure what makes them supposedly more effective. Id say really the best thing you can do to have a more efficient heat exchanger is to use a greater portion of distilled water in relation to glycol. Water has a very high specific heat. You could adjust it from a standard 50/50 mix to 75water/25glycol or something so long as you have adequate freeze protection for your climate.

 

It looks like ammonia has a ~25% higher specific heat than fresh water, and that's the only "common" liquid to even be higher than water. So they're either full of shit or some physics they don't want to tell us

 

Something something…. Dark matter…. Something something….. heat death …. $19.99

 

Before I go off and get on my soap box I just want to be sure I have not overlooked anything??

my question is,, Is HP Tuners writing tunes now for the Tundras??

 

I didn't think they ever made their own tunes? They provide the software and hardware for others to make tunes.

 

What snivilous said, HPtuners is a software that allows a tune to be flash, read, and made.

Quite few of us have had custom tunes done by 3rd party with HPtuners, its really cool btw when you datalog.

 

What these guys said ^^. My tuner used HP Tuners for my rig and zero issues.

 

what they said.

the only canned "tune" I am aware of is the old TRD tune that came with the Mag/TRD kit. and it was not ideal.