Spiker Engineering Lower Ball Joint Bolt Test (1st Gen)

Sounds like you have the thicker bolts where the lower torque spec makes sense.

 

I think the other issue is that people replaced their lower ball joints but reused the 20 year old bolts. It's best to replace both.

 

Yup. I did that and Im pretty sure the LBJs had been replaced under the service bulletin a while back at some point. But then I bought bolts at Toyota dealer because I was paranoid lol. Now I just wanna be sure I didn't stretch them with wrong torque.

 

Def not the dust cover. Those use tiny little screws that would def snap off if you put them to 48 ft-lbs on them. And there's only two screws for the dust cover. Follow the lines, it is the 4 bolts for the LBJ.

But also look at the second pic on my post--it's written out clearly there--48 ft-lbs.

Those images are of the Toyota factory service manual for the 2006.

 

Yup, those screws that hold it on would def snap. Mine came attached. I meant 48 if it goes through the dust cover depending on the design like the one that has 2 specs... nonetheless. There's some confusion. Im pretty sure I made my conclusion off the LBJ misprint thread from a while ago.

 

Just to be clear what I'm saying:

-The 48 ft-lbs spec is correct for the later 1G Tundras with the larger LBJ bolts. The 90105-12316 ones for the ~04-06 Tundras.
-The 59 ft-lbs is correct spec for the smaller LBJ bolts on the the earlier '99-03 (ish) Tundras (and 1G Tacomas (but NOT the 5lug-2wd ones) and 3G 4Runners...)

 

Thanks for all of that Nick.

Per our other threads/posts, I believe you and I purchased the same replacement flange bolts, Toyota 90080-10066? You've installed yours?

I haven't installed anything yet, but when I picked the bolts up along with the new LBJs and reman CV axles at the dealership I asked the parts gal specifically about the bolts, telling her I couldn't find the exact part number for our 2000 AC SR5 4x4. She stayed on the computer for a while but couldn't find the part number either. Really? She said that she thinks that those will work, but if not, just bring them back for a refund. Well, that's not the point really.

Our Tundra isn't a daily driver and won't see any heavy off-roading so I don't plan on ever pulling them out again, but I'm more than willing to order new bolts, stronger ones but more importantly ones that will fit. I'd really like to know what the exact OEM part number is as I cannot believe there isn't one. Happy to order aftermarket though, but again, need the correct part number. Seems crazy that this is so confusing.

Maybe I just use the ones I have and not worry about it?

 

I think if you're only installing once it's fine. I've had mine in and out probably 4 times (CV axle nonsense mostly). I took my 4200 mile road trip with no idea these bolts were probably weak.

Wanting to order the ARP but not certain they are the right length for regular joints or joints with the protector boot. I assume regular length but I didn't have any bolts to check with. Any chance you could measure your bolt length in mm to confirm? The ARP bolts look to be 30mm. If those bolts are 30mm or pretty close to it I'd say get the strong ARP's and be done with it. They're just a bit more pricey.

 

Good to know.

The 90080-10066 threads are 30mm. That said, I've no idea if our 2000 has the protector boot or not. So I'm not sure which ARP bolts to order - 663-1003?

Looks like Summit has the best price...

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-663-1003

 

The length just refers to the shaft length. Head doesn't count. Sounds like the "green" bolts are probably 30mm then. I know two bolts go into through holes but the other two don't. Just wouldn't want to bottom the bolts out.

Edit: My 01 doesn't have protectors. Some 02's do. Might have started in 02

 

Got it. (Updated post)

Our 2000 probably doesn't have protectors either then.

So it sounds like the ARP 663-1003 are the ones to use then?

 

They are a bit pricey for some bolts but wouldn't ever have to worry about them again. $50 for enough for both sides.

$24 ARP (663-1003) M10 x 1.25 x 30 Hex Black Oxide Bolts (5/pkg)

Link (not shipped from Amazon so seems legit)

 

Saw them on Amazon, but no free Prime shipping, so a little less at Summit - $25.98 for two sets + $11.99 shipping = $37.97. Think I'll go ahead and order them and return the Toyota bolts.

Thanks for the clarifications and tips Nick. Much appreciated!

 

Yeah Scamazon wants to charge double shipping price if you order 2 sets. Think if I order it will be from summit as well when I order.

 

Received the ARP bolts from Summit Racing yesterday. They appear to be identical in length, threads, etc. to the Toyota bolts.

I'll confirm that they fit after the LBJ's (and CV axles) are installed in a couple of weeks.

 

They sure look right. I'll order myself a set here soon too. Thanks a lot!

 

@NickB_01TRD , thanks for reposting our article! Glad to see it helping out the good Tundra folks .

A couple of points regarding some of the questions - our study was limited to only the earlier M10x1.25 bolts. Later Tundras got the bigger M12 bolts. We have not tested those bolts (yet), but it stands to reason that they require more torque since they are significantly larger and can handle the higher preload levels.

As for the earlier M10 bolts, any of them can be used once if torqued to 59 ft-lbs, the one glaring exception being the Black bolts. Those should not be torqued higher than the Toyota recommended 37 ft-lbs - not because they are weaker (as many folks incorrectly speculate) but because they achieve the desired ~9,500 lbs preload at a much lower torque than the other bolts. They can also be reused more times without any noticeable degradation.

For the folks using ARP bolts, I would strongly recommend not using the 663-1003 bolts. They are actually shorter than OEM, and if used with the supplied washer (as they should be), they become significantly shorter than OEM, to the point that you only have two threads of engagement. I would step up to the 35 mm ARP bolts, 663-1004.

 

By comparison it appears that both the Toyota 90080-10066 bolts and the ARP 663-1003 are the same length; 30mm. (See my post above)

So does that mean that the Toyota bolts supplied are too short as well? I think @NickB_01TRD said that he used those on his Tundra.

If the ARP 663-1003 bolts that I was going to use in the lower ball joints for our 2000 AC 4x4 are too short it sounds like I need to return them and get the recommended 663-1004 ARP bolts. Hope you can confirm that before I return the ones I have and order the new ones.

Thanks very much for the info Leon... very important!

 

I would love to see torque testing results on the later M12 bolts. Because, as I've shown earlier in this thread, Toyota Factory Service Manual lists the torque specs as being LOWER on the M12 bolts (48 ft-lbs) vs the M10 (59 ft-lbs). Opposite of what reason would have us believe since they are larger bolts. (These images are from the 2005-2006 Tundra FSM.)

 

@spiker I'm confused on this as well. The "green' bolts seem to be 30 mm as well which is what I am running on mine. I've reused mine about 4 or so times and am trying to find the best replacement for them just in case.

I know two of the bolt holes are through holes so length wouldn't matter but if I remember right two of them are not so you wouldn't want bolt to bottom out before it was snugged up on the base of the ball joint.

@richsadams is the only one with both "green" bolts and ARP bolts on a table right in front of him. I haven't picked up a set of ARP bolts yet but would like to see your input on this.

Thanks for replying on here! I didn't realize you all already had an account or I would have tagged you.

 

gotta measure correctly to start tho



This is the way

 

This was @Sunnier later model Toyota seat bolts I believe.

 

Understood, but bottom line these are the recommended bolts for the LBJs on our '00 and '01 Tundras so the question to @spiker, are they too short? Based on his post, that's our understanding of what he's saying so we're waiting to hear back.

I didn't take the ARP bolts out of their packaging because I may return them, but after a careful remeasure (and trying to account for the shrink wrap), it does appear that the ARP 663-1003 are in fact slightly shorter than the Toyota 90080-10066.

These listings on Summit Racing show:

ARP 663-1003 Underhead Length (mm):30.00mm

ARP 663-1004 Underhead Length (mm):35.00mm

So neither seems to be the "Goldilocks" bolt, one possibly being too short and the other slightly too long *IF* the Toyota 90080-10066 are in fact the correct bolts for our application. Still think it's crazy that even the parts department couldn't find the correct/recommended bolt.

@NickB_01TRD mentioned how they are all seated so maybe he can shed some more light on it too. If the Toyota 90080-10066 bolts are a tad short, it sounds like the slightly longer ARP 663-1004 bolts are the way to go as @spiker suggests.

 

The Green and Red bolts are around 32mm long; the Black bolts are 35mm. The -1003 ARP is "nominally" 30mm, but when used with the hardened washer (which I would recommend) it becomes less than 28mm long.

So the Green and Red bolts get about 5 threads of engagement (more than enough), the Black gets 7-8 threads, and the -1003 ARP only has about 2 threads engaged. -1004 is 4mm longer and would have about 5 threads of engagement.

From what I've seen in the 3rd Gen 4Runner, the Black bolt will not bottom out in the blind holes, even when used without the boot.

 

Thanks very much for the clarification.

My Tundra is a 2000 and I think Nick's is a 2001. I believe neither year have the boot (implemented in '02?), so I'm still unclear as to which ARP bolt would be appropriate. Thoughts?

 

You're welcome! I'd go with the 663-1004 ARP bolts.

 

Excellent... thanks very much for the great info!

@NickB_01TRD, do you see any issues around bottoming out for our application?

TIA!

 

Thanks for the clarification. So 663-1004 seems to make the most sense. After adding the included washer the length is pretty darn close to the same it seems.

Sorry I work night shift and sleep all day. As far as the bottoming out thing it seems that if you run the washer it should be pretty close in length and it should be alright but it's hard to say for sure without just testing it. I plan to pick up a set here soon. I'm sure one of us will find out soon enough.

 

Sounds good. I'm going to return the ones I bought and get the longer ARP 663-1004 too. I've decided to have a local shop replace the timing belt, water pump, etc. so I'm going to just have them replace the CV axles and the LBJs at the same time. I'll give them both the Toyota and ARP bolts with instructions to use the ARP bolts but if they don't fit, go ahead and use the Toyota bolts. Appointment is on Sept. 21st so I'll report back afterward.

Thanks for all of the tips and help, much appreciated!

 

So the problem I see now is that the longer ARP bolts (35mm) have a shank (I think that's the word) near the head. Not sure how long it is but if its longer than the non-threaded hole in the ball joint then that would also be a problem. It's always something.