Explain like I'm 5, why are some 2022 Tundra lifts sub-par?

I've seen alot of people getting on the forum talking about spacer lifts and other users jumping in and saying that's not the proper way to lift a truck. So my big question then is, what are the various types of lifts and the proper way to lift a 22 Tundra.

• Westcott has a preload collar lift (not sure what that means)
• Rough Country has a level kit, a 3.5" and a 6 lift (not sure what types of lift those are either)
• And then I hear people talking about King and Fox suspension are these lifts too or just suspension system changes that need to go along with some other lifting mechanism?
• I've seen folks reference Icon upgrades, but not sure what that equates to in practice

I guess what I'm getting at is: I see alot of opinions being posted about what's not good but not alot of folks saying what they think the best way to go is and why one system is better than another and what they'd choose for occasional off-roading. (85% on road, 15% off). And at the end of the day I especially see a lack of data beyond anecdotal evidence.

 

@PapaDave418 @RevereOverland @Tundra009 @KroppDuster since I know y'all go off-roading maybe you can clue me in over here. I'm looking for a budget friendly way to get into day trips off road and if I like it maybe some overlanding and feel pretty overwhelmed with their being alot of options but very little explanation and cost/benefit talk going on.

 

More cost will bring more benefit. Any spacer lift is just moving your factory shock a couple inches to provide lift. Not bad, but not great. No additional suspension travel is achieved and you have a 2 piece shock now, not the strongest option. Ride will be relatively factory if the spacer is on top of the factory strut and not inside of it. The next option is a replacement strut with an adjustable collar like the Bilstein 5100’s that uses the factory spring. A little stiffer, very little additional travel but a one piece setup with a quality shock body. Very popular for its cost to benefit ratio. Then you step up into the big boys with a true coil over replacement like the Kings, Fox’s and Icon’s among others. More travel, custom spring rate and high quality (usually bypass system) shock body for better off-road performance. This usually needs a few additional mods like new upper control arms to take advantage of the increase in travel. Then there are bracket lifts which can have features of any of the above systems. The add a few inches to the lower A-arm mount to increase lift. A spacer or longer coil over is used for these too. It’s what a majority of the over 3.5” lifts are made of. They are frowned upon by hardcore offroaders but the most popular 5-6” lift method. Pavement queens rejoice in this lift. Long travel is a whole ‘nother ball of wax. All new A-arms, coil overs, CV axles yielding a wider track, longer travel and necessitating wider fender to cover the tires. It’s much more complicated than these cliff’s notes describe. Lots. And lots. And lots of info on this forum to help clarify.

 

Well I would say start with day trips and see if it’s fun. Some will spend a ton of money without really figuring out what they enjoy doing. So get out on day trips and see what the pain points are. For example you are on a dirt road and it gets rough and you are worried you will scrape your truck somewhere. Or you are going through mud and your stock tires are just spinning like 4 brown donuts. Or you wanna camp somewhere that isn’t in an official campground and it isn’t quite level or smooth. That’s where lifts, off road tires, or camping gear comes in. Our trucks will do a lot as configured for most people. You just need to figure out if you are “most people” or if you want to go somewhere 99% of people won’t go. For me I got up to the top of a mountain with my kids and spent 2 hours setting up and breaking down my gear to cook while my kids sat by the fire without me. So I knew I needed more a streamlined set up to reduce the work, increase time with my kids, and make it more fun for me.

More fun=more go
(You said talk like you were 5 years old on the first post)


Take it for what it’s worth, I’m no expert

 

This is super helpful thanks! I live in Western WA and I know there are tons of places here and in Oregon/Idaho/Northern California I want to explore but have no idea what is typically needed to do so. My preliminary guess is minimally I'd want some insurance in terms of a skid plate, and maybe a little extra clearance height beyond stock. But I don't foresee myself taking the truck down the rubicon trail, or wanting to go anywhere where I feel like I need rock sliders.

I think your point is really good though, I should go out and see where I feel like the truck is going to cause me to worry and fix those. Mainly, I thought by asking you and some others you could get me thinking in the direction of a smarter prioritization of what I might need to think about first and possible show me where I'm overlooking areas that are important that I may have overlooked.

 

I lead an Overland Bound meet up in NorCal which has about 70 active members and this is what I tell people who are willing to spend a little on their new hobby (addiction). Tires and sliders. Sliders save your lower door panels if you get somewhere weird that looks tame and crunch. Tires that stay inflated are great and our stock tires suck. So if you want bigger tires then @KNABORES post is perfect and well-said. If you keep the same size then tougher tires will help. BFG K02’s are popular, I like Toyo’s, just depends what you want. Bigger tires elevate your differentials further from the ground giving you more clearance at the cost of MPG.

 

@PapaDave418 nailed it. Get out and try some off the pavement adventures stock. These trucks are pretty capable stock. You'll be fine for regular logging roads, etc. When the time comes a traditional lift with replacement shocks allowing for more travel would be the direction I'd be looking at.

Plus the practice and experience will make more of a difference than a lift kit.

 

Tires and gears. And if you don't need big tires, then, just tires until you know exactly what you want to do. I do believe that for most of us, it's pretty hard to cut into a new truck. Get better tires anyway, the OEMs usually suck even on pavement.

When your truck has some miles on it, you will have a better idea what you want and are willing to do.

 

Shocks, not struts

Struts are for cheap, transaxle econoboxes. No Toyota 4x4 has ever had a strut.

 

Truth. It’s a strut-like shock. Most think of a shock as, just a shock. If there’s a coil on it, it’s a strut. But these do not behave as the upper mount for the front suspension, so no, they are not really struts. But most would also not refer to the factory “shock” as a coil over, which in fact, it is.

 

A coil on it makes it a coilover. A strut is a structure component where, if it was removed, the suspension would fall apart. If you remove a shock or a coilover, the suspension, from the spindle to the hub to the upper and lower control arms, stays intact.

Edit: but we’re not really helping the OP here unless he promises to never use the word “strut” when talking about his Tundra

 

Very well said and informative. Thank you

 

A spacer doesn’t add to the tire uppy and downy. It just pushes uppy and takes away downy. You want a more up and down, not just to move where it is in the up and down.

Depends what kind of 5 year old you’re talking about. Decent parents or raised by a screen…

 

@PapaDave418 pretty much nailed the use case to gauge where you should start, which will tell you how much you need to eventually invest. @BuzzardsGottaEat summarized how various lifts work. lol.

@DBWA Prepare for a wall of text...but I'm going to talk to you like a very well educated 5-year-old. lol.

My advice won't really provide you with a clear path forward because where everyone starts is different. My first truck that I took off road regularly just had spacers and 33" tires. The spacers allowed me to put on larger tires which in turn helped my ground clearance. That was fine for many years because my goal, at the time, was just basic off grid camping. The problem with spacers is that they push your suspension down and limit travel/articulation. More about that in a minute.

Off roading, trail riding, overlanding...whatever you call it...for many people becomes a little "addictive." Almost like an arms race. lol. The more trails that I conquer, the more trails I end up coming across that are beyond the current capabilities of my rig. So, I build out my rig more and more and more. I always want to go a little farther down the trail, little deeper into the woods, or a little higher up the mountain next time. My off roading trips have evolved from camping down BLM fire access roads back in the day to now wanting to tackle the entire Pacific Crest Trail or (maybe) something really stupid crazy like Hell's Revenge in Moab. I just love it when I see full size truck conquer this trail.

Also...it's worth noting: Unless I'm hitting the trails with some buddies or an organized group, I generally do it to get away from people. So that plays into it too and that's the story for a lot of folks.

Start with basic trips and go from there. If you get the bug to go farther and more often, then there's your answer.

All that being said, here's my 5-minute summary of "lifts":

Spacers ($) = Literally a machined aluminum, rubber, or other metal spacer that goes at the top of the coilover. They push the suspension down and compress everything more. This is why they essentially reduce your overall suspension "travel" (i.e. how far up & down the suspension can go). They limit articulation, which is bad. So why use them? They're cheap and they allow for larger tires, which is the primary way to gain ground clearance. So, for $50 - $150, plus the cost of new tires...you can gain quite a bit of ground clearance. Are spacers bad? Not really, if you're aware of their limitations. I think that most folks who poo poo on spacers don't think of them for they are and they want to compare them to higher end lifts. Every enthusiast has to start somewhere, and this is where many people start. I'm still running 2" spacers on my 3rd Gen Tundra while waiting on my Icon setup to arrive.

Preload Systems ($$) = They're a hybrid of a suspension lift and a spacer. The Westcott system uses a spacer at the top of the coilover and then compresses the actual coil spring by using an aftermarket spring perch (this is called adding "preload"). This type of system basically gives you the same experience as spacers but doesn't reduce articulation as much. This is a super popular choice for many folks right now. The main issue is the lack of any adjustability (just like spacers) and the lack of articulation. If you slap 300lbs of armor on the front of your truck (like a bumper & winch) then you can't do anything to counteract the weight since there's no adjustment. These systems will generally run you ~$500 plus another $500-800 for install labor.

Suspension Lifts ($$$ - $$$$) = The main event. Suspension lifts are what they sound like. These lifts actually replace suspension components instead of just modifying them. That means extended length shocks, heavy duty/extended springs, upper control arms, etc. Most suspension lifts will increase articulation between 30%-40% while also being adjustable. You can adjust the lift and ride quality of these systems while on the vehicle. Because of the increased articulation, you can conquer obstacles and trails that many rigs simply can't. You'll able to keep all 4 wheels on the ground which gives you traction whereas others will have 1 or 2 wheels off the ground and thus without any traction. Sky's the limit with suspension lifts pricewise. You can get into a basic suspension lift for around $1600 plus another $600-$900 for install, but they skyrocket quickly from there. Most mid-tier kits (stage 4-6) will run $3000 to $4500 plus another $800-$1800 for install depending on what components get replaced. Stage 8+ kits and "long travel" kits go up even higher.

I hope this helps. If I rewind 10-15 years, I can promise you that I felt the same way. Overwhelmed with choices. My best advice is to take your stock truck on some trips before deciding on anything. Find out what's fun for you and see if the off road/overlanding "bug" bites you. If it does, you might want to invest in the Westcott system and run that for a while. I don't think it's wise to jump straight to a suspension lift without first seeing how often you'll actually use the capabilities you'll be buying. In my case, it took years before I developed both the actual driving skills and desire to warrant spending the big bucks on a suspension lift.

 

I wouldn't throw out the need for sliders just yet. maybe look at some that also act as steps, you can jack the truck up anywhere on the slider too and that helps a lot when shit goes wrong, they also stick out enough to help when things get kicked up or you slide in the bud a little and into a stump/rock as well as door dings. Ask me how I know.

 

This was super helpful, exactly what I needed to understand. Thanks for taking the time to write this up.

 

PapaDave418 pretty much nailed it.
Here's my experience. For my first couple of overland off-road trips, my truck was completely stock w/ the exception of bigger tires. I was able to do river crossings and moderate rocky trails. The guys I go w/ gave me the same advice that PapaDave did. Get out there first and slowly you'll figure out what you will need. Just know your limitations!
Lately, the guys I go w/ like to do "night runs," hence I have to get better lighting. Ditch lights w/ OEM lights at a minimum. We got lost one night and ended up close to the cliff. Great thing my buddy has his Taco fully rigged up w/ lights otherwise it would've made it even challenging for me. Then we started hitting trails that I would occasionally scrape. That's when I installed the Westcott 3/1 lift. For a while, I was totally oppose to ditch lights (don't like how the truck looks w/ it) and didn't want to lift also. But after a few runs, I realized its time to get them for safety.
Like I said, know your limitations. The truck is fully capable as it is. If you know you're destination is not challenging, don't upgrade. At a minimum though, 1st thing I would do is replace the tires.

 

@DBWA -

Not to rain on anyone's parade (I guess i'm raining on my own too) - @RevereOverland just put out a new video this morning. He's got a 2" spacer lift, 35s and some leaky front axles. Toyota told him to kick rocks on his warranty. I don't spend a whole lot of time on here so i'm sure someone else has run into this already but it is worth knowing before you start down this path. Pretty sure voiding the warranty is normal, pretty sure leaky axles after minimal mods and 8000 miles are not. For context, ran my '16 Taco with bigger tires and coilovers for 80,000 miles without any issues.

 

If it was me and I had a long bed truck I would definitely have a set of nice rock sliders on the list somewhere close to the top of the list. That is just me thinking what I would do if I was going to venture off road.

 

I haven’t looked at it as yet but that’s surel disappointing (on the axles and warranty issues).

Toyota says their lift kit doesn’t void any warranties so I guess we are getting pushed that direction if we are worried about that issue?

Will go check it out.

 

So from reading this, knowing that 98% of my "off-road" time will be dirt/gravel roads and the very rare two track in the Black Hills it looks like a inexpensive spacer lift would be my best bet. Looking mostly to level out the front end and eventually I would probably add slightly larger tires. The only "overland" travel I ever do is during pheasant season and that is strictly over the plowed ground. Does this sound correct to y'all?

 

It's not @RevereOverland. It's actually DrivenCompanion (different content creator who's not on the forum), but similar thing. I posted about it on the thread: Tundra Warranty Voided by Lift

I don't think he's purposefully trying to sensationalize things with his video. I've seen a ton of his vids and don't get that vibe from his content. However, I think he should clarify if his dealer is trying to void his entire warranty or just deny the warranty claim on the axles due to the lift. He doesn't really say.

Link to DrivenCompanion's YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnrQATHxM1k

@bigjuice I checked my front axles and they seem to be fine. Small, small, small amount of grease if I jam finger in where the axle meets the transfer case, but it's a tiny enough amount that I don't consider it out of the ordinary. I don't see any evident of a torn axle seal or CV boot. I.E. I don't see any grease slinging around the area that indicate a seal failure. It would be all over the transfer case and the back side of the skid plate. I'm running the same 2" spacer as DrivenCompanion and have had it for about 10k miles.

Since you've got a more aggressive lift with the 3/1 Westcott...would you might crawling under your truck when you get a chance to see how you're axles are performing? You've had your Westcott installed longer than most. If 2" to 3" is enough of an angle to start jacking with the CV axles...then I'm worried. As I mentioned in my other thread, I ran a cheap Daystar 3/1 spacer lift on my 4Runner for 60k miles and ever had any issues with the stock front axles. They were the original axles until I sold the 4runner last month with 130k miles on it. I would be severely disappointed if the Tundra axles couldn't handle this.

 

I would say you’d be fine. The spacer lift makes the ride stiffer but airing down to 15-20psi can also help smooth things out if you are just driving gravel and plowed ground roads

 

Sounds like stock suspension will work fine.


At least you’re in the best state of all states.

 

Yep definitely take a stock rig through some paces and see what rubs, hits, scrapes... I have a Fox suspension with custom leaves and all I do offroad is go to the beach lol. Definitely overkill but it's my money and I'll spend it on what I want lol

 

A spacer lift changes the range of motion of the stock suspension. You’re pushing the entire shock down, so its upper most compression, and lower most extension occurs farther down.

This is fine if done correctly. Correctly means ensuring that the bump stops still catch the suspension before the shocks bottom out(since they now bottom farther down) and that you are not over extending the suspension when drooped.

some doofuses on the F150 forums run like 3.5” leveling spacer kits and wonder why their CV’s are ruined.

Something like Kings/Fox/Bilstein replacement shocks are design to have to proper travel range. The lift occurs by preloading the spring. All that does is change where the truck sits in the shocks travel. If you crank up the preload all the way then the shock sits closer to full extension, which means you have more up travel and less down travel. It also means the spring is far stiffer at full uptravel because its under higher preload from the get go. Ideally, you would change spring rates and coil lengths on a fancy coilover to match your needs rather than crank the preload.

A lift is usually where the front suspension and differential are actually lower to ensure that the suspension geometry stays stock. You bolt in a new suspension cradle to move the lower control arms. This would be like a BDS 4 or 6” lift.

 

Like you are 5:

Spacer lifts are like wearing shoes with really thick soles to be taller. You can reach the basketball net better but it won't help your jump or run faster.

Replacing your coilovers is like replacing your legs with stronger, quicker and longer legs. You can reach the net easier, jump higher and run faster. And if you have lots of money, you can match your legs to type of game you like to play (adjustable!).

 

Or if someone like Bilstein comes out with their 5100’s then it should be a very cheap upgrade ~$400 but still offer better performance that leveled stock shocks. Its more than a level but the would provide better ride on and offroad.

 

When Bilstein comes out with the 5100's for the 3rd Gen, that's going to be a great option for many folks. To be honest, once they hit the market...they'll live in the same space as the Westscott kit and will be stiff competition.

 

Ive got them on my F150 and they were a huge upgrade over the stock shocks, although the stock F150 shocks are notoriously underdamped.