Do I need a new truck for this? Poll inside...

Didn't want to clog up the other thread. My wife and kids keep dropping hints about wanting a camper. We would get a lot of use out of it. We already camp year round in TN. A few of my kids' friends' families camp with a trailer. My kids are getting to the age where they would love going on more trips with our friends.

One of the campers I'm looking at is a rear bunkhouse camper with the following specs:
GVWR: 7600lb
Unloaded weight: 5500 lb
Payload: 2100 lb
Hitch weight: 700lb.

I'm highly skeptical of that hitch weight when we're loaded up, because it's not even 10% of GVWR. I am assuming it's closer to 1,100 lb.

My truck's door jamb info:
GVWR: 7200 lb
Payload: 1270 lb
Curb weight: 5930 lb (that's a heavy half ton!)
Code: USK56L-PSTSKA (SR5 crewmax 4x4 with towing package and 38gal fuel tank).


Referring to the 2021 manual page 203, that code tells me that my tow rating is 9200 lb. My GCWR is 15,510 lb.

If I buy this trailer, I'd be:

• 1600 lb under my truck's actual max tow rating (assuming I am towing the trailer at GVWR, which I see as highly unlikely),
• 710 lb under my max GCWR, and
• ~600 lb over payload.

Note: That 600 lb figure accounts for family in the truck with my current modest mods (plates, tires, air bags) and a weight distributing hitch. Everything else would be in the trailer. I know it adds up quick, but we don't have close to 2100 lb worth of stuff to bring. I'm used to counting ounces on our backpacking trips.

If my manual says I can tow 9200 lb, then that means I can stop 9200 lb, too. Being 600 lb over payload, I'm still under my rear GAWR of 4150 lb.

Now here's the thing. I love my truck. I'm not trying to pick the wrong tool for the job. I'm trying to have one tool that does the best job of everything I need it to do with minimal compromises. Right now, it's perfect for me. My main uses are daily driving, hunting, jobs around the property, towing at most 5k lb, and going extremely remote places to camp with the family. It is a fantastic truck for all of this. The power, space, and mobility are perfect. Nothing else this size drives as small as this does and is as nimble off pavement. And nothing else is as reliable. These are really big points for me with the 2nd gen Tundra. Also, it's paid off.

My opinion: I don't need to swap trucks to tow the above camper. What say you?

 

Like said above, the payload bit is a bit individual. Also, as said above, renting something close to what you are looking at for a couple days and towing it in the worst stuff you think you'd do in your own will be the best test.

Personally, I'd look long and hard at what the trailer had that I didn't really need, and I'd look to see if I could find a lighter way to do the same thing. Maybe like this?




https://www.tprv.com/bullet-ultra-lite-travel-trailer-floor-plans

 

If you’re going to be ~600lb over payload realistically, then it’s probably time to look for a more appropriate tow rig.

 

My payload was 1270 but the yellow sticker dropped it to 1253. My TT GVWR is 6080 and I have to be very, very careful to keep the numbers within spec. My rear seats left at home saves me 114# but the dog bed, bed frame and dog add 160#. So with back seats in that leaves you 44# for kids.

I do it by moving everything possible that's heavy to the trailer for traveling. Tools, tackle boxes, wood blocking etc. Tundra carries the aluminum fishing cart and lawn chairs and MT plastic gas cans.

It's an eye opener when you actually list everything in the cab and start to add up the weight. Gallon jug of dog water, snacks, atlas, phones, rear camera monitor for the TT, umbrellas....You where I'm headed here.

We go south for 7 months this year. That's a lot of junk we load in the trailer. To save weight we take very little food and only put a few gallons of water in the fresh water tank. By shifting the load around in the trailer I can get it within a few pounds of 10% number. I use the bridge scale method to check my tongue weight. Remember, you can move items out of the trailer and into the truck when you set up for camping. Takes a few extra minutes to move rubbermaid totes out of the trailer.

 

I have almost exactly the camper that you speak of.
My truck tows it with zero drama.
However, as loaded for camping my truck is overloaded by 200 pounds.
I have posted all of my weights with pictures on a couple of other threads.

IMO the tundra is more than capable of towing it. However the stated weight capacities are not.

 

My personal opinion:

1. You're already in the better position to make an educated, risk based decision for your situation because you know the numbers, the trade space, and likely will act accordingly while towing.

2. You bring up the primary duties for the truck, which should weigh heavily in the decision, along with the intended destinations and the journey to them.
- if this is an occasional weekend warrior type of activity, I say run what you got if you are comfortable doing so
- if you plan to road trip and have this become a new way of life (read: change the primary duties), then I'd say it's time to look bigger.

Cheers

 

Agreed. My kids are young, and we're planted for now. This would be for short trips. There are loads of great state parks here, and the Smokies are 4hrs away.

I've been 200 lb over payload climbing Imogene Pass in CO. I've been 600lb over payload with rock in the bed. My truck was absolutely fine in both situations. This trailer is well within my tow and GCWR, which means Toyota rates my truck to pull and to stop it just fine.

If I move to an HD truck, no more dispersed camping to the places we like to go. Wouldn't fit. Daily driving becomes more of a pain. Harder to fit just about everywhere. Having an HD truck would probably make me find a different car to daily. Two vehicles to purchase, insure, and a maintain. All because I'm exceeding one number that is a CYA for Toyota far more than it is a legally enforceable standard.

 

Me personally if I am every towing anything frequently I am buying a 3/4 ton diesel. I believe in overkill to increase reliability and longevity.

The Tundra is a good truck it will pull it but it won’t exactly like it. There is no replacement for the torque the diesel can make. It would tow that thing all day long anywhere and everywhere without really straining anything.

My cousin has a 20ft camper and his 5.0v F150 struggles to pull it. It’s hard on the truck. It’s the kind of driving where you really just pray for no hills and level flat road. They try to go once a month camping but his fuel cost alone are outrageous.

When I was younger my brother and I had racecars we would pull to the track every weekend. My dad bought a 98 12v Cummins and that thing laughed at the load. Pulled it like it was a walk in the park compared to our gas v8 half ton trucks. Diesel mpg was drastically better and it was not putting a large amount of wear and tear on the truck.

It’s a big investment but in the long run worth it. For me worth the peace of mind alone to never have to worry about going anywhere, new roads, unknown routes ect.

I am also not the kinda of guy who wants to set the cruise at 60mph in the slow lane or have a line of cars backed up behind me on a two lane highway because I’m towing a large load.

 

Totally get it. That HD diesel truck would be far worse for me for almost every other task I need it to do. The price difference for diesel eats up almost all of the fuel economy advantage. My truck is more than capable (I get that some think it's not), and it is happy to rev up to get into its power band.

This trailer is 5400 lb unloaded, and we realistically have maybe 500 lb of stuff to put in it. 600 if we throw our bikes in. I know it adds up fast, but like I said above, I'm used to obsessing over ounces for backpacking trips.

 

I think the idea of renting a camper first for a test is a great idea.

Another thought is a half ton diesel. I have always liked the idea of the smaller duramax half ton Silverado. Could give a nice balance of a daily driver but still have more ability to tow when needed. I have never actually driven one but could be an option.

I would be very diligently keeping up with maintenance on the Tundra if you are frequently working it hard. It’s a good truck but nothing last forever.

 

I do keep up on maintenance. I enjoy it. Somehow it is very cathartic for me and a good way to get some alone time or get one of my kids to help me.
At this point, any other half ton is out of the question for me.
Another family we're friends with has this same camper. I would see if they would let me hook it up and take it for a test drive.
They pull it with an Armada.

 

The places we go dispersed, I'm getting pinstriped on Jeep trails. Making tight turns, which the Tundra does amazingly well given its size. I don't see an HD truck maneuvering very well out there.

I bought this truck to keep as long as possible. Never have bought a brand new vehicle before. It's paid off. I'm not a swap every few years guy.

 

I have the same truck & a 7K travel trailer loaded for camping, 1325lbs of payload, 980lbs of tongue weight, GCVW 14,200lbs. I am within 100lbs of the RAWR and we travel the country every summer. I have over 35K towing this rig. Also, have 207K on the Tundra. I am not in a hurry to get anywhere & like to keep it around 62mph which is about 2k rpm’s and get 10mpg depending on terrain.
Get a good hitch & find a CAT scale near you to dial it it. Research the “Three Pass Method.” I did upgrade shocks, “E” rated tires & rear sway bar.
DM me if you have and more questions. Enjoy!

 

What's the length of that trailer? From the numbers, it's very similar to mine, which is making me wonder how much I'm over my payload. I don't have quite the same build as you but...

Payload (according to door sticker): 1270 lbs

Truck mods:
Canopy - 200 lbs?
Spray in bed liner - 50 lbs?
RSB - 30 lbs
Towing mirrors - assume negligible weight difference to stock mirrors
Total: ~280 lbs

Stuff in the cab of the truck:
Passengers and dog: ~330 lbs - also need to account for another 100+ lbs if we have another kid
Assume at least another 50 lbs for toys and games for the passengers, water bottles, the emergency gear and tools I keep in the cab, centre console junk, etc.
Total: 400-500 lbs

Stuff in the bed of the truck:
Propane: last trip I took 23 lbs
Propane fire pit: ~20 lbs
Bbq: ~15 lbs
Ladder: ~35 lbs
Stroller: ~25 lbs
Tools: ~50 lbs
Total: ~170 lbs

Trailer:
Brochure says dry weight is 4980 lbs with a hitch weight of 555 lbs (11%).
Sticker on the inside of the door says the weight is just under 5300 lbs (can't remember the exact number - 5286?). Using the same ratio, that would put my dry tongue weight at ~585 lbs.

Trailer additions:
Propane: 40 lbs max plus the weight of the tanks
Battery: ~40 lbs
Spare tire (on the hitch): 15 lbs
Gear in the front storage area (chocks, leveling mats and blocks, hoses, etc.) - assume at least 50 lbs

The dealer also added a small fridge to the rear outer compartment, just behind the rear axle. This may decrease the tongue weight a bit but probably not a ton due to the location.

Updated hitch weight: 730 lbs

Let's assume I put another 1000 lbs of gear in the trailer and 11% of that weight ends up on the hitch.

Total hitch weight: 840 lbs

Total payload on truck: ~1690-1790 lbs

So without actually weighing anything, I'm assuming I'm over 400 lbs over my payload today and could be more than 500 over in the future.

I need to get a tongue weight (or bathroom) scale and call a weigh station...

 

I think this has changed on newer trucks, especially the GMs, but even a few years ago diesel 2500s didn't have much more payload than gas 1500s. The increased weight of the engine ate up most of the GVWR increase.

 

If your kids could stand the smaller back seat, a 2500 DCSB has the same wheelbase as your Tundra. I think GM has the best turning circle of the big 3 HDs due to the IFS but, as you say, still probably not quite as good as your Tundra.

 

I leave late September for Ft. Morgan. The afternoon before I leave I'll fill the tank and with trucked packed hit the nearby gravel pit for a total truck weight without the trailer. Next morning fill up again at the CAT scales with the trailer on to get a total weight by axle. Those numbers will give me the tongue weight and allow for some final shifting of the trailer load.

One thing to remember: If your trailer is 6,000# GVWR your axles and or tires may only be rated for 5,400#. The other 600# is expected to be on your tongue.

 

I noticed this about my trailer. GVWR is 7500 lbs but it has two 3500 lb axles.

Would 4000 lb axles really have been too much to ask for?

 

Seems like a good place to pose this question, as I truly would like to know the answer and it’s very much on topic. Is it illegal to exceed payload ratings? I can understand exceeding GCWR getting you in trouble legally, but if you’re under GCWR but over payload does it make it illegal?

 

My understanding is no. Private trucks pulling recreational vehicles are exempt from regulations. My opinion is that I’m fine as long as I’m under GCWR and under the truck’s towing (and therefore stopping) rating.

 

One potential scenario I could maybe see for us moving forward:

-Trade in my wife's Yukon XL for a 2nd gen Sequoia. Then that would become the dispersed camping rig.
-Move to the right, older HD truck for pulling a camper. My Grandpa has a clean 2001 F350 7.3 diesel with 170k miles and my name on it if I want it. Bye bye Tundra. (I do not like this at all).
-Daily some other car.

 

You CAN tow that. Others tow as much every day.

Personally I’d do one of two options:

1.) Lighter camper (heavily favor this one, a lot a lot).

2.) 2011-2019 Chevy 3500 HD with 6.0 gasser engine (lighter camper better option in every way)

 

What is the length of the trailer you are looking at? To me, that is more important than the total weight.

My trailer is only about 4500lbs loaded and 21' long, but it has the aerodynamics of a brick. I think I could go up another 1-2k lbs and not feel a noticeable difference in pulling, but a longer trailer becomes more of a wind sail.

Tongue weight is of course the issue. My trailer has an advertised hitch weight of about 450 lbs. I have a hitch scale and if I have more than a half a tank of fresh water and am not careful in my loading, I can easily top 850 lbs on the hitch. I can get it down to 750 when I load carefully.

I have been considering bumping up a size in a trailer. Looking at about 25' and a loaded weight of about 6000 lbs. I don't think I want to go any larger than that with the Tundra, and it may even be pushing my comfort level a bit, but that has more to do with backing it into tight spots than anything else.

So to take too long to answer your question, I think I'd be comfortable with the setup you propose, as long as it's not too long, and as long as you load it carefully.

 

I haven’t weighed it on a scale but I’m sure I’ve got to be over payload by a decent amount. I have a trailer of similar weights. 32’ with tongue, 6200 dry, 7450 max GVWR, 620# tongue empty. I also have a DC which usually yields a touch higher payload. It truly doesn’t feel like too much while towing it. I just got home yesterday from a trip. 200 miles each way with varying hills and back roads at 90 degree ambient. It was extremely comfortable and drama free. Braking felt good, coolant and trans temps were good, and power to spare although I’m not stock in this regard. Rear suspension wise I have a progressive AAL, airbags at 20psi for some added support and a Quality WDH with 1000 lb. bars.

I also have a cap installed. In the truck it was myself, my wife, her sister, and our dog which I would total at 500 lbs. Every other trip we take it’s just the 2 of us and the dog. The truck bed had probably 250 lbs of stuff. I realize I’m likely over the payload, but I feel no indication otherwise of being overloaded while towing and I’m never white knuckled or wrestling the wheel. I feel there’s no reason not to be comfortable towing a similar trailer unless you’re a worry wart about getting sued (albeit not super likely) if an accident occurred which I totally understand. I don’t have a plan to change my rig however, as I think it tows very nicely and safely. I realize this setup is a no no for the payload police, but my experience must be worth something to the OP. If you want to know how it feels, see if your friends with the same trailer will let you do a test tow and go from there.

All of this in mind, I do intend to get an HD truck next time for peace of mind, but I’m not about to part with my tundra over surpassing the payload by 20%-30% and still being within GCWR with a comfortable towing experience. The thought of someone else towing this rig with me and my family also on the road does not make me uncomfortable.

 

I prefer to tow with too much truck. Control during wind is key as is having enough power to climb hills, and being able to manage the trailer when using the brakes. It was very good advice from who ever said rent a similar trailer, drive the truck and trailer combo up and down hills, on various road surfaces, etc and then make your decision.

 

No. No such section exists for non-CDL drivers/vehicles.

 

There can be issues in some states for non-CDL but still using truck/trailer for a business, but not that I know of for just privately driving to go camping.