Questions about gen3 vs gen2

No one is saying it doesnt play a role. But the Tundra went from 13's to 17's overnight and its not just because of the 10 speed.

Also, Ram's 8 speed has the largest spread of any truck transmission at the moment. its 8th gear is taller and 1st gear is shorter than any of the 10 speeds. I dont think adding gears to their 8 speed would do much of anything.

 

"we know the current reliability of the 22 is 99% and that should be good enough." Disclaimer, I'm taking your word for this and assuming it's accurate. Even still for me personally, and I would wager for many other toyota owners, 6 months of data simply isn't good enough. There are plenty of vehicles that will run that long and not have any significant issues. I wouldn't buy a lot of those either. When somebody rolls 100k, or gets a year out on their warranty those numbers start to mean something. I'm not trashing your truck. I'm sorry if you are feeling that from this forum. Just trying to voice why many tundra owners are not jumping on the '22.

 

So you will base your opinion on one person making it to 100k miles?

 

Yeah, that was a little obscure. I tried to clarify it with an edit.

 

Thanks, we have already established I wasn't looking at exclusively 5.7 ram data. But we also established that when you do focus in, the 8 speed was good for a 7% increase in economy.

I know that, but your previous comments sure make it sound like you weren’t willing to attribute any gains in economy to the 10 speed. A couple mpg improvement is peanuts frankly. Gas is money, but time is worth more money IMO. Downtime in the shop because your brand new redesigned truck is having one small warranty repair after another is not worth the time lost or the frustration for a couple mpg improvement in my opinion.These are the things the OP should really be considering. If mileage isn’t a priority for him but expectation of a hassle free ownership is, then the choice is clear.

 

Agree. This will be my first truck in over 20 years and I chose a Tundra partly based on Toyota's reputation on reliability. I'm really hoping my 22 lives up to that, but it's honestly too early for any of us to know for sure if it will.

 

If you go buy the data for the F150 Ecoboost then, no, there is virtually no change due to changing transmissions. I would argue that the TTV6's are the least in need of a billion gears because they make such epic low end torque and have such a wide powerband. Diesels have a narrow powerband(~1500 to 3500 rpm), and V8's need to be rev'd to make power and are more peaky than a GTDI, so both of them have more to gain from the high count transmissions.

 

Lol! No. But when that starts happening with the '22s, that's when claims of 99% reliability start to mean something. To me. Not at 6 months and 5k miles. Can you imagine what would happen if Toyota produced anything that couldn't make it 5k miles without significant problems? Literally means nothing.

 

Agreed. One thing for sure based on reputation is that if there are problems, Toyota will fix it. Too many other truck manufactures will watch a problem continue year after year. Looking at you GM.

 

Toyota is new to the TTV6 concept. Ford has done it for 10 years. Ram probably going that way soon. Chevy I think has a diverse lineup with a couple V6s and a diesel that have been out a few years but they’re only just starting to catch on and not pushing the V8s aside yet.

Pick your poison, all the modern technology in these low displacement powerhouse motors means every company has its learning curve. Believing that these will eventually be the main choice for truck engines, I went for the company that’s been doing it for 10-plus years this time rather than the company that just tried it for the first time. I bought my 09 a few years after the debut. Normally how I like to do it but Toyota’s rollout and availability just didn’t line up with my timeframe and needs this time.

I was sorry to see the 5.7 go. An updated 400 hp/450-500 lb-ft version of it would have completely changed my calculus as I doubt we’re likely to see such a rock solid and consistent motor again in our lifetimes from Toyota or anyone else.

 

Whew thankfully I’m at 18,000 miles trouble free in my 22, I made it past 5500…

 

An amazing testament to Toyota's legacy of reliability and longevity.

 

^^ which is one of the main reasons if not the main I have a tundra, have owned 3 zero issues, am a bit of a Ford guy too, batting about 75% over 20 years on those for trouble free.

 

All BS aside I hope that the new tundra continues to perform well and not be plagued by issues as so many other manufactures have had when adding new technology to vehicles. However based on what I have seen friends and family deal with from other car manufactures in the past few years I am leary of buying a bunch of bells and whistles. Especially when we are just now seeing real world data. If anybody can do it right it will be toyota. I don't get a new vehicle every few years or so. If the technology and new designs can't hack it for the long haul, then I'll wait for toyota to fix the problem before I consider an upgrade. Plus like you, I love my truck.

 

These posts about reliability are always entertaining. I got my driver's license almost 50 years ago. I began helping my dad work on our cars years before that.

It was common to set aside a day on the weekend every other month or so for maintenance and repair. New plugs and wires, setting the timing, points and condenser, brake pads and brake cylinders, charging the AC (when we finally got AC) etc.etc.

Ahhh, stories of the good old days. I enjoyed it mostly. Now we take our vehicles for an oil change every 10k miles. I had absolutely zero problems with my 2004 Tacoma in over 12 years. Nothing but brakes, tires, and oil changes that I recall. Pretty amazing. Anyway...

 

Well said sir. Everytime I come up against a vehicle issue I can't fix in my driveway it make me miss those days. Now it seems like one of the most valuable things you can have is a good warranty and a service manager you can trust...but do you ever? Really?

 

I am simply amazed at the amount of hate for the 3rd gen tundras.

I admit I was not a fan of the looks at first. I was disappointed with the time frame of the release. Also concerned when I heard about some of the issues the first released ones were having.

As time moved on I noticed more and more 22s on the road and started to ask the owners what they thought and what issues they have had.
Over all the responses were very positive.

I finally decided to make the jump and so far in I am impressed.

every make and model out there has issues or has had issues that have been resolved.

I am sure that Toyotas engineers have every intention of designing and building the best truck they can.

 

I'm not surprised at all. In fact, I predicted it on here way before it launched and pretty much nothing was known about it. I bought one of the first 3rd gen Tacoma's and joined TacomaWorld soon after. It was the same shit show as here x10. Ugly grill, mini van engine, won't be reliable, blah, blah, blah.

People want to believe they made the best decision whether it was buying the new design and are super defensive of the slightest criticism, or will fall on the sword championing the late model old design. It's all basic human nature and totally predictable.

And the engineers don't get to design the truck they want to build. They design what they have to build to satisfy Federal regulations and Toyota marketing requirements.

Oh, and your grill is ugly

 

Lol my grill is sexy. It’s color matched.

Like it’s predecessors I have confidence the 3rd gen will prove themselves.

 

Don't forget the accountants.

Also remember that Toyota's engineering budget for the Tundra is a hell of a lot lower than what the big 3 can afford for their trucks.

 

Sigh.... Don't get me started on the whole "accountants or bean counters" thing, lol. Accountants give the engineers and designers the information they request on cost. They don't make the ultimate decisions on design. If the engineers and management want to make less profit after finance gives them cost information then they can justify it to the shareholders. No corporation I ever worked for had accountants making design decisions. That whole notion is an insult to the engineers in top management positions that run most manufacturing companies.

 

I didn't say they did. The "engineers have to satisfy" the accountants though... same as "federal regulators and marketing".

 

Not manufacturing, but more often than not that is the case in the IT world. I would lose track if I tried counting the number of times all of us, the engineers and T2-T3 techs, insisted that changes or upgrades needed to be made, but the "bean counters" said "we can't afford that" so the changes didn't happen until emergencies happened that required them to finally give the required money.

 

Thanks for all the feedback. I will keep you posted on what I end up doing.

 

I agree with you on the bells and whistles, bashers on this site seem to be obsessed with the v6, the “smaller” interior etc… what worries me about my 22 is the excessive nanny features. Likely the future though…

 

You are going about it wrong. In my experience engineering would ask finance to run cost scenarios. After they got results that they didn't like they would just give finance new parameters and inputs until the financial models produced a result they liked and could sell to the investors.

 

I worked in aerospace which is a completely different world.... but wouldn't the engineers be given a "cost of production" budget from finance/accounting from the start? I mean everyone has a pretty good idea of the price of the new Tundra, and you work backward from there, trying to make the best tradeoffs given the constraints.

Besides the fact that Tundra engineers are going to have a relatively modest budget for their work.

 

Excessive nannying and excessive connectivity. Every appliance, vehicle, etc is turning into a “smart” device. It’s connected all the time. Probably monitors your every move. Likely has a marketing profile of you that it shares with other advertisers or manufacturers. Contains features accessible only by monthly subscription. Growing dependence on software that needs constant updating. Vehicles already contain a log of your every move and every speed.

Not a slam on the 3rd gen. It’s just new everything.

I just wanted a simple, honest truck I can depend on.

 

I won't pretend to be knowledgeable about costing a new production vehicle. I am certain it's an incredibly complicated endeavor. I am confident that accounting does not drive the bus. Accounting is a service department with a mission to comply with SEC regulations and accounting standards and provide management with financial support. I would bet $ that most C suites at auto manufacturers are occupied by engineers, probably with an MBA from a pretigious university and they don't answer to accounting.

My experience is with energy companies building infrastructure with capital budgets of billions of dollars. That starts with proposed projects and then analysis is done to determine if those projects will generate an ROI that will attract investment.

 

Dont let the negativity get to you. If you like the 3rd gen, then find one and go for it. If you would feel more comfortable with a 2.5 gen then go for it.

Every brand of vehicle has issues, even toyotas of all generations. Thats why dealerships have service centers, not just for those who need routine maint but also to handle warranty and recall issues.