Questions about gen3 vs gen2

I had a 2011 (gen 2) and loved it. Sold it for a RAM 3500 with the 6.7L Cummins to tow a 15K lb 5th wheel.

We are considering selling both the truck and RV and returning to a Tundra.

Two questions at this point:

Engine - Is this new twin turbo engine something new to Toyota? The 5.7L that I had was tried and true, with great power. I am not concerned about the tiny increase in MPG's so that would not be a selling point for me. Turbos tend to me higher maintenance so I do have a concern about this motor.

Truck Bed - I was never a fan of the Tacoma "composite" bed. I had a 2015 and it just felt cheap. Maybe it was a good as the metal ones, but it certainly didn't feel like it. Any thoughts about this on the Tundra?

TIA

Dan

 

Me personally, I think the 2022 is ugly as hell. Yes the TT V6 is new for the 22. It is also having a few issues as with most first year production runs. The interior is also slightly smaller. Aside from opinions on the truck itself, I upgraded from the 2013 4.6 to the 2020 with the 5.7. It is my daily driver and I have a travel trailer that we pull once in a while, but it's nice to have the 5.7 power when I need it. I did tow the kids 4R and Rodeo with it.

 

The V6TT engine is new to the tundra but has a few years of service in the Lexus car lineup. I don’t know what the exact differences are but I’m sure the components aren't 100% identical from the car vs the truck platform. It will get you probably 3-4 mpg average better than the 5.7, a lot of which is probably thanks to the 10 speed transmission. Similar horsepower but a nice torque increase especially below 3k RPM. The 5.7 as you know is an extremely solid and proven design with plenty of power for any 1/2 ton truck task. Commenting on the V6TT reliability is nothing but conjecture right now from anyone who claims to know. Time will tell! If I were you and enjoyed owning the 5.7 previously which it sounds like you have; I’d buy a low mileage 2nd gen and give the 3rd gen a couple of years before considering one.

 

The mileage advantage is MOSTLY due to the engine, not the transmission. If more ratios gave that much of an economical advantage, we’d see all the trucks retaining V8’s and just adding cogs. Within a few years, V8’s will be off the menu industry wide.

OP, I wouldn’t worry about the composite bed. You may not like how it feels, but it’s been in the Tacoma for 18 model years now and they don’t have issues.

Honestly, if you’re hesitant just get a 2nd gen. But any low mileage 2nd gen is going to be the same price as a 2022, but at least you don’t have to put a deposit down and wait 6+ months

 

The new turbo 6’s have low end torque like a diesel, high end power like a v8, and almost the efficiency of a non-turbo V6.

Because of this they are really nice in trucks that are used for towing a lot(the power and torque) but are still daily driven(the efficiency)

 

That is precisely what they’re doing in the 3/4 ton segment. That’s why the 3/4 ton GMs with the 6.6 gas engine are getting 17-18 mpg on the highway despite their weight and size.

Also look at the Ram 1500s. They had a 7% increase in city mileage and a 9% increase in highway mileage going from a 6 speed to an 8 speed. I bet the 10 speed accounts for nearly half of the 3rd gens MPG improvement. To say a 10 speed with a higher rear end ratio wouldn’t improve the 5.7 mileage a measurable amount is wrong IMO.

 

Yeah the armchair engineers on the forum think you can just slap a 10 speed behind the 5.7 and get 25 mpg.

Meanwhile, any other company trying to make V8’s efficient are having to use direct injection, displacement on demand, and other wizardry that make them just as complex as a twin turbo v6. And still need 10 speeds.

 

Can’t say I’m a big fan of the composite box either, would hate the cringe to slide a pallet in the back with any weight on it. For what we use our 2022 it’s not an issue but it doesn’t seem very substantial, ttv6 is excellent much prefer it over our 2019, and like it better than a few ecoboosts I’ve had, I think the 10 speed is part of why.

 

There is one at my local dealers lot and I know the manager. It's Army Green which I like too. They are only charging MSRP for local people. I just wish I could sell my 5th wheel so I could trade my RAM 3500 for it. I think it would almost be a straight trade....

 

Go to Fuelly and check the Ram 1500 with a V8 and see how much it’s actually helping

 

The Gm 6.6L has a 6 speed. The same one they’ve used for years. Any improvements are coming from everything but the transmission.

Highway is virtually the only place where a V8 can kinda hold its own because its high load and low rpm. Everywhere else they have to use displacement on demand to make them efficient.

GM and Ford dont use dod on their HD trucks specifically because of reliability. But GM is all in on DOD on the 1500’s along with direct injection, vvt and 10 speed transmissions so they can get 10% lower mpg’s than the 2.7L turbo engines that both them and ford make.

 

I did and would still choose a 2nd gen at this point. Before anyone gets offended, I think both trucks look great. The only thing I would do differently is choose a column shift 6-seater, and then I would DIY swap to the larger OEM 38gal tank. The bare bones SR and SR5 (no upgrade package) trucks were the only 2nd gen trims you could get a 6-seater in, and they came with the smaller tank, even in later years. You can’t get a column shift 6-seater in any 3rd gen trim.

My primary use for my truck outside of going to and from work is traveling to very remote places for hunting and camping. I want to come home every time. I also avoid the dealer like the plague and do all my maintenance myself. The 2nd gen Tundra isn’t perfect, but it’s dang close. I just prefer tried and true, even if it’s less efficient.

2nd gen negatives:
• fuel economy
• rides like a truck
• low payload rating (that I exceed on occasion)
• no rear locker on any trim

2nd gen positives:
• nearly impossible to kill if you just stick to the maintenance schedule
• tight turning radius
• short hood, excellent visability
• gigantic interior (vs 3rd gen, feels like a much bigger difference in person than on paper)
• still a very strong, capable truck even though it’s a dinosaur

Regarding the TTv6’s and what exactly about it is new in the 3rd gen Tundra, check this video out:

 

The new Turbo V6 is impressive. Faster than the 5.7 IMO. Virtually no turbo lag. I remember turbos from the mid 80s tho, I have to keep that in mind.

The 10 speed transmission takes some getting used to, gears 1-3 to me seem kind of funny and IMO the truck at times has a hard time making up its mind which of those 3 it wants if you do a slow and roll vs coming to a complete stop, pause for a second or two then go.
Other than that its a very smooth shifter.

Switch lay out of the dash is driving me nuts tho. Esp the ones on the sift side that I cannot see and have to hunt and look around the steering wheel to see.

Radio volume controls and the info screen controls I get confused sometime. Getting better at muscle memory with those tho.

Need a rubber bed mat for the bed.

Dont care much for the shape of the hood from the drivers seat tho.

What do I like?

That twin turbo V6, I am really liking it over the 5.7, yes I know blasphemy, but to me theres a lot more power, and last fill up my combined mileage was 23.4 No complaints with that.

I like the hvac controls and the rocker switches below that.

The interior in general I like, no rattles noises considering how much plastic there is.

The stock SR5 LED headlights are great, nice wide bright beams.

The ride is overall smoother than the previous gen.

No issues with fit or finish that I can notice.

Over all I really like the truck, and more so the more I drive it. The looks have grown on me over the last few months.

 

5500 and no problems should be a given, but it's not guaranteed with any truck. The 3rd gens are great from what I can tell. Historically, buying the first year of a new generation is a bolder move than buying later years regardless of manufacturer.

 

Stick with the diesel. Might sell mine soon for a new power stroke platinum.

 

I did, and noticed that after 2013 when they switched to the 8 speed the mileage increased significantly and is also exceeding the 3rd gen tundra average for several of the production years.

 

I hate to disagree with you because I am a V8 die-hard. But the majority of the Ram increase in mpg starting in 2014 is due to the Eco-Diesel, which began production that year. If you choose 5.7 in the filter, the mpg average YOY for the 8 speed only increases about 1 mpg from 14.5 to 15.5.

 

1 mpg increase for 2 extra gears sounds substantial to me. That’s a 6.8% increase. Going to a 10 speed over an 8 speed would certainly not make economy worse, and would likely help. I’m not saying the transmission is the sole reason for increased economy, but to say it plays no role is silly.

 

And yet when people raise their gearing by installing larger tires, they claim lowering it with a regear will improve MPGs...

 

It certainly plays a roll. The Gen 2 might see the same 1 to 1.5 mpg increase with a 10 speed, similar to Ram. Which would bump its current 14 mpg average to 15 or 15.5. Nissan did exactly that with the Titan. They went from 5 speed port injected in 2015, to 7 speed DI and saw 1.5 mpg increase. They then went to 9 speed in 2020 and saw zero increase in mpg.

 

I’d say even that premise is debatable and most likely people finding more ways to justify spending 3-4K on a regear. I think that’s more related to decreasing the load on the engine while spinning tires with more weight and rotational mass as well as increased rolling resistance. In turn, that could help efficiency with the load reduction. Giving the truck a higher rear end ratio with a 10 speed makes sense from an efficiency standpoint with there being more gears to choose from to achieve optimal fuel efficiency and power at different speeds and loads.

 

The 22 Tundra is the early reveal of the 4th Gen Tacoma

 

The 2022 is pretty different. On the plus side it rides and handles better (stiff frame, coil rear springs), gets better mpg (~20%), has a little more power and lots more torque with a greater benefit at altitude (turbos), fitting big tires is easier, and the frame is torsionally stiff (fully boxed). On the downside it's more complex (inherently less reliable), has less interior room and a longer hood, and a less beefy rear axle. Then there are the typical new model issues of reliability and weak aftermarket.

I think for street use you'd probably be happier with the 2022... but if you aren't in a hurry, waiting a year or so would not be a bad idea.

 

I was actually agreeing with you. There is only one gear where the regear actually does something, and that is 1st. The rest of the time I'll just be in a lower gear vs if I regeared.

The gen3 has both lower and higher gearing than the gen2, but more so on the high end. That is done for mpg. People with other brands who have a choice of diff ratio report better mpg with higher ratios.

 

I'm just one guy here, but I think it's worth noting that this perspective you have with your 4runner is probably the same reason many 2.5 gen owners shy away from the '22. No reason to think it won't be as reliable as previous generations, but toyota hasn't built its reputation based on the first 5500 miles.

 

I was a skeptic on the composite bed when I went from my 2004 Tacoma to the 2016 Tacoma but I learned to appreciate it for maintenance reasons. The steel bed on my 2019 Tundra is also pretty beat up looking now compared to my 2016 Tacoma when I sold it after 4 years.

It could be my imagination but the steel bed in my 2004 Tacoma seemed sturdier than my 2019 Tundra. That little Tacoma was built to take a beating.

 

Double bingo

Not even the first 30k miles, which I have hit in my ‘21 without so much as a single interior rattle. I expect far more of the same uneventful reliability.

 

No its not even close.

5.7L Hemi:



3rd gen Tundra is at 17.6

The 65RFE in the Ram before the 8HP70 was also a craptastic transmission. it had the same 6th gear ratio as ford and GM's 6 speed, but its first gear was only 3:1 while Ford and GM were running 4.1:1. They could run much taller axle gears without sacrificing the low end.

 

The exact same thing happened when the 3rd Gen Tacoma came out..... 16s and 17s had some issues but they were ironed out pretty quickly and now there's no concern. That said, most of the 16s and 17s (including mine) were perfect right out the gate and haven't had any issues. The bet with Toyota in general is that they'll continue to stand behind their vehicles and correct those growing pains as quickly as possible. There will always be champions for the old gens and the new gens, and both gens had their advantages and disadvantages, so at the end of the day you're still chewing Toyota over the other OEMs and that will affect your long term costs more than which model Toyota you split the hairs on.