What exactly do you gain with the hybrid?

I don't necessarily disagree but just to play devil's advocate a bit:

1. What are sales numbers on the EcoBoost vs Coyote in the F150? I don't know for sure because I have no data but the impression I get is that not many folks are buying the 5.0L V8. (Yes, that could be due to what Ford stocks on its lots but if someone really wanted one, at least Ford lets you order a build.)
2. Why would an auto manufacturer care about your operating costs?

 

Ok, but how long is an F1 race? I don't want an engine I have to rebuild every 4-5 years, let alone every 4-5 weeks.

 

I was hoping Honda would at least get in the full size game. More competition is never a bad thing.

 

Spend the $2k extra to get a 3500.

 

Bit more power and a higher $ truck payment

 

hopefully they have different seats than the 1/2 ton, I really wanted to get an AT4 and just went and tested the 6.2 AT4 1/2 ton. my lord the seat bottom was so bad it was a deal breaker. maybe the HD have better seats, I thought about that route too but they wont fit in my garage, boo.

 

Interesting thread . My wife and I is eyeing for 2023 Sequoia for her daily drive. Don’t need to have a top trim level. SR5 with premium trd sport is enough. I really want to drive test that I-Force Max/hybrid before we finalize our decision.

 

1. Abysmal, I am sure, but I am also sure that is by design. If you have to meet fleet EPA regs would you offer a beastly V8 that competes with your TTV6 in everything but MPGS, or would you include a lackluster option that makes your TTV6 look even better? The weak sauce V8 for the odd diehard who won't buy anything else is just that, weak sauce. Imagine the regs being out of the picture and you could really push the V8 and spend the R&D to make it as efficient as possible without compromising it's durability. What would that V8 look like? Look at the old 5.7 Hemi in a Challenger. They can push 16 city and 24 highway MPGs out of a heavy brick of a car with an older than hell design. How much better could it be if they didn't have insane regs hanging over them? Could the next gen Hemi V8 have possibly gotten to 30 MPG? If it could, might the truck version have been able to squeak up to the old designs car numbers? We'll never know, because true innovation and pursuit of excellence takes a back seat to satisfying the "green" agenda deadlines.
2. As long as it makes it out of warranty, they don't. Sure is working well for them on the TTV6 with turbo warranty claims so far, eh?

 

Agreed! Full size pickup that doesn't look like a ridgeline 'contraption' would be fantastic! I saw someone loading a mattress on that thing, it was hilarious with those angled sides

 

A race is about 200 miles roughly typically.
So it’s pretty impressive that a 1,000hp 1.6l engine can scream at 10,000-15,000 RPM’s and well over 50 pounds of boost for 800-1,000 miles before needing any maintenance of any kind.

 

Assuming you don't have to retire midway through due to a failure.

 

I think they use the same seats, I would need to sit in them if I explore that option.

I might be able to barely fit a 3/4 ton in my garage with a crew cab and 6.5-6.75’ bed. It would be ridiculously tight though. It might not matter: my mom is selling her house because she’s sick of living alone after my dad passed. She’ll be living with us in the near term, maybe permanently since we have enough space. I won’t ask her to park her 2021 Lexus RX350 outside, since my wife will probably drive it as much as my mom will. So the RX350 and the SS will hold down the garage. The old Scion tC will go live at my away from home terminal so I have wheels again at the hotel in Gillette, WY; and my truck will be parked in the driveway. If that’s the case it doesn’t really matter if it fits in the garage or not.

 

I've never been able to get comfortable in a GM truck. Single biggest reason I'd never buy one. I drive way to much to have a vehicle that screws my back up after an hour drive.

 

My buddy drove my 1794 Sunday and said the seats felt like a Benz vs his rst 1500 and prior Denali 2500

 

Okay a bit off the topic of where this thread seems to have gone. I JUST picked up my TRD pro monday. It's flippin hot here so I run the recirc and the A/C. When I shut off and restart the truck I notice the A/C has shut off... anyone know a way to keep it on?
also I have had the truck run in electric mode up to 65mph... its a very slight downhill home from where my wife works and we did 6 miles in electric at highway speed.

 

The ECO mode also doesn't let the air conditioner run at full capacity which helps save fuel. Crank the A/C on ECO and then switch to Normal or Sport and you'll see what I mean. If you want to get cool quick, take it out of ECO. I agree with your thoughts on the shift points. Four wheel high and sport mode is pretty fun on dirt roads btw.

 

Also wanted to echo some points made earlier. I have a Highlander Hybrid and it has a similar electric motor just a bit smaller, but he vehicle is much lighter so you can drive in electric longer and at faster speeds.

I have a 20 mile commute to work, pretty flat, but there are 3 mild declines. If I drive 65mph on cruise with my TRD PRO, on each decline the truck engine shuts off down the incline until the electric motor can no longer maintain it's current speed. It's not long, maybe a half mile each, but it's not related to speed necessarily. Also, as mentioned, you can drive close to 40mph on flat ground if your battery is mostly full (from braking) and you gently accelerate. Once I turn into my neighborhood its all electric for the mile or so to my house, but the speed limit is 25mph.

I also like that I can idle (say I'm in line at a fast food restaurant or waiting at Sam's club to fill up) and not burn gas.

I don't have the non hybrid to compare, but I do like the hybrid for those reasons. If tech can improve the battery power in the future, it seems a no brainer to recapture some energy with braking. Whether it's worth the cost is in the eye of the beholder.

 

I have a 2022 Capstone in blueprint (MSRP), and am very disappointed in the fuel economy. Coming from a '22 Platinum Powerboost F-150 where I could get 25-30 mpg around the city and 22 or so combined. Currently I am getting 18.2 with the capstone, with hybrid motor. Which is the same as my '21 37PP Raptor. My other gripe is the battery pack taking up the entire back seat storage area, coming from Ford I am used to utilizing that full area, but no longer can, and can't really even carry my dogs (doberman) well because of the set up. Overall the truck and motor are a great step forward, but still needs some refining such lithium battery packs in place of nickel as well as location. I am hoping to get rid of the capstone for a lower trim that doesn't have the hybrid motor simply for the storage space problem. Still like the new platform a lot overall, and hope to find a platinum or 1794 without hybrid, (really wish I could get a TRD Pro to replace the Raptor, but that I-force Max smh).

 

well it was stated that the hybrid wasnt to improve mpg on the 22 tundra. it was mostly for towing. all they talk about in the brochure on page 3 is about the power for towing and what not.

so if you were thinking the hybrid was to get better mpg, then maybe some research would have saved you the disappointment.

 

I dont understand this. How could it do one thing and then be completely useless at another? You're telling me that the design is so fundamentally different to make it function towing that it can't provide a benefit anywhere else?

 

It is hard to fathom how an additional 48 horsepower and 104 lb/ft of torque yields essentially no performance gain, mpg aside.

 

!. No lag on takeoff from word go.
2. Engine on off with hybrid seems effortless.
3. Fuel milage is 21 around town to 24.5 under ideal conditions on freeway at speed limit or little over.
4. Have had it go into hybrid mode as high as 65 mph on downside of hill.
5. Have went as far as 1/2 to 3/4 mile in hybrid mode.
6. Acceleration from a stop to around 60 is nice for a big truck.
7. Pulling trailer with sxs on it truck never gets over 2000 rpms except on steep hill then you see maybe 2500 rpms.
8. You are easy on throttle all time driving it.

Really all I can think of right now.

 

It seems like a lot of things you don’t like are known things that you couldn’t really be “surprised” by. Do your dogs really have an issue with the battery? My dog doesn’t seem to complain when I put her in back with the seats up. Also, there’s a reason for the NiMH batteries, which is the same reason the AWD version of the Prius gets NiMH. Cold weather is a real factor. It’s 95 degrees at my house today and in 5 months it will frequently be 120 degrees colder than that. NiMH handles those extremes better than Li ion.

 

Sheesh, it frequently gets negative 25 F in Idaho?

 

A 5.7 built and tuned for 2007. If it wasn't for overall emission targets Toyota could have easily built a new v8 that would have gotten better numbers than the TTv6. Ford has basically given up on developing their Coyote so that they'll sell more EcoBoosts or else they'd have issue with the emission laws.

The engine is the same issue as the rest of the new Tundra - is it better than the outgoing 2.5 gen; yes. But is it better enough that I would trade in my 2016 for it - no. If I ever get another Tundra it will be in 4-5 years after the 3rd gen has proven to be as reliable as the 2nd gen, or if they get a PHEV. Even a V8 giving 450/480 numbers wouldn't be enough to sway myself.

 

Which is why Ford diverts the exhaust through an exchanger to heat power lboost battery pack

 

The iForce Max has more torque than every HD gasser on the market, yet the payload remains well behind other 4x4 crew cabs in the half-ton segment.

People forget pretty quickly that the twin turbos, hybrids, and cylinder deactivation v8s are here because of regulations forced upon the automakers, not strictly due to innovation for power and reliability. Yes, they get better fuel economy and are more powerful than the v8s of the 2007 model year. But there is no such thing as a free lunch, and we see increased costs and in many cases increased issues as well from these designs.

 

Does it bypass the exchanger in the summer? Maybe route coolant through it?

 

Depends on the part of the state, but yes, it does get that cold a couple times each year in central Idaho north of the Snake River Plain. Coldest day of my life was -40 when I was a kid and the only reason they cancelled school was because the diesel gelled in the school busses…

 

I didn't say anything about racing pulling a 6000 lb trailer. Trailer with sxs of mine might weigh 1500 lbs. Didn't even say anything about racing.

Everybody have good day. I got get ready for work. Going be another hot day with rain and cool front tomorrow.