What exactly do you gain with the hybrid?

Not meaning to argue. Just enjoying the conversation. There was no malice, and I appreciate you presenting your views.

 

I agree. I’ve owned and built and blown up as many V-8s as I have smaller displacement forced induction cars. Displacement isn’t as much of an important thing as is quality of components and intended use for the engine. There is a reason F1 cars run hybrid forced induction, small displacement engines whereas top fuel chassis are running big pushrod SC’d V8s. Arguably both engines have to be rebuilt and parts replaced on equal measure after each respective race.
Bottom line, this subject has entirely too many variables to argue to a finite, one sized fits all conclusion for everyone. Thats why we have options; which manufacturer, which engine, hybrid/non-hybrid, etc. Everyone should get what they feel is best suited for their intended use.

 

Believe it or not F1 engines need extremely minimal maintenance and rebuilding.

I only know this bc I'm a massive F1 nerd lmao.

They make 1,000 HP out of a tiny 1.6L V6 and can get 4-5 races out of them pretty easily before needing anything changed.

Edit: It does still show though that displacement isn't that important.
These current engines are making more HP than the V10's back in the day did. Literally like half the displacement lol.

 

For sure, maybe not every race, but you know what I mean though. lol. Each has their own respective give and take but each has entirely different use.

Same goes for the 1/2 ton truck market. Plenty of options depending on intended application. I just know, currently, I’m much more comfortable in a Toyota than anything I could have opted for from domestic manufacturers. Even on a first year model and engine and transmission change. That says a lot. lol
When BMW’s shit wasn’t even meeting QC and tolerance limits for Toyota when designing the MkV Supra, that just further reiterated it all for me.

 

A Greta Thunberg participation ribbon in the campaign to save the world.

 

BMW doesn’t make quality cars though. They haven’t for a couple of decades now.

 

What we need really is Kia or Hyundai to make a halfton!! Need more choices, since full size pickups are now considered luxury grocery runners, just like SUVs and cars. Wait no, cars are for peasants now.

 

I don't think you're too far off the mark of the future of the pickup industry. Half tons keep going up in performance, and pricing, as do the midsize trucks, plus with the Maverick and the Santa Cruz reviving the old "mini" truck segment (kinda sorta) I think in the next couple decades the half ton will be phased out. They are already approaching/hitting the prices of HD trucks, midsize trucks only really lag behind them in tow ratings with really close payloads, and for the pure in town/affordable level there are the unibody minis.

The only reason I'm not driving a Ranger or a Taco instead of my Tundra is because there wasn't much of a financial savings and a couple thousand extra bought me a more capable truck. I see the half tons priced so close to an HD 3/4 ton that I think many people would opt for the greater capability, or drop down to a midsize for a lower price. Without a large disparity in price people are always going to go for more capability, IMO.

 

The fact 1/2 tons are so close in price to an HD has me looking at HD trucks to be honest.

 

Who can blame you?

 

I don’t even need one, but RR vendor discounts narrow the gap even further.

I am into a 3/4 ton GMC AT4 Duramax with decent options for what a TRD Pro goes for, and GMC will happily build as many AT4’s as people want to buy.

 

I think you're looking at it wrong based on that question. While towing, it fills the torque dips from the 10 speed changing gears, during sudden acceleration from things like going up a hill or passing another vehicle, it instantly fills the gap from a lag in the turbos spooling up. It isn't running continuously, so it's not really a question about how long it can supply the extra power and torque. It's only coming on when needed to fill the gaps and at low speed/low rpms.

 

Non hybrids have some lag trying move a 6000 lb vehicle on takeoff. With battery power help on takeoff there is no lag with Hybrid.

 

Not really, it all depends on the battery spec. This is the Wrangler 4xe motor and transmission. The electric motor makes 134 hp.

 

Agreed maximally on both points. When we were looking for pickup for work, tacoma was so close in pricing to tundra it was a no brainers, but I do see where compact pickup might be more appealing to a typical homeowner, not needing full size bed.

@SWB lag? We aren't racing when towing a 6000lb trailer. Do you really want to WRAAGH!! it on takeoff and put extra strain on teansmission?

 

I think in that application the electric motor also replaces the torque converter, at least it looks like it does in the cut away.

If Toyota ditched the torque converter they would have more room for a larger more powerful electric motor.

 

This one looks shorter than the Tundra hybrid transmission with torque converter!

 

Well I don’t think the Jeep is a 10 speed, nor is it large enough to put up with 583ft-lbs of torque.

 

I didn't need a full size bed so I got a CrewMax. Zero regrets. Love my giant cavernous cab. I honestly could make do with a Maverick at this point. Cheaper to drive the Tundra 'til one of us dies, though.

 

By full size, I meant 'width-wise'. You can slide a pallet sideways in between wheel wells and a 4x8 drywall will easily fit flat down.

 

Ah, I gotcha now.

 

Just great… My tundra is supposed to be delivered by the end of this month and you got me looking at 2500 AT4’s. Thanks… Haa

 

Aaaand done… Shot up to $84k real quick when selecting options. But you were right @Coal Dragger if you go with a gas 3/4 ton it’s basically same price as a Pro

 

Yeah easy to get carried away. If you can resist it though it can be done.

In fairness last time I looked my vendor discount was pretty good.

Edit.

GM prices have gone up it seems, but I can still option out a GMC 2500 Duramax AT4 in metallic paint, with navigation, running boards, and premium sound for $75K. Last year the same truck was about $71K.

Full MSRP is around $80K for reference.

I'd rather have that than a Crapstone Tundra for the same $$$, and honestly for only $5K more probably more than a TRD Pro too.

 

It's a sad day indeed when toyota owners on toyota forum discuss better value from other manufacturers. I feel the same though, at that price, one begins to seek alternative options.

 

It's not a Toyota problem. It's a 1/2 ton truck problem. The same can be said for any half ton truck, and the only reason Tundra owners would jump ship to another brand is because there isn't an HD Toyota option. It is sad, but it's the end result of ever increasing prices in the segment.

 

3 hour drive from my house in Boise to Ketchum, ID- 80mph highway for 50ish miles then 2 lane road at 65. Towing and passing my hybrid battery actually had MORE charge at the end of the trip than it did when I started. The passing power with the hybrid is amazing, press the pedal and you’re going from 50-100 almost too fast.

Thanks for looping me in!


Fyi- buddy drove my 22 last night, he is coming from an 08 tundra, 16 f150 eco boost, 19 denali 2500 and most recently a RST mini diesel and he is calling the dealer today to order a sequoia. Took him one step on the accelerator and getting to speed and cruising to say this is the best rig on the market hands down. He’s a total truck nut

 

Exactly.

The price differential between a 1/2 ton and 3/4 or even 1 ton are so blurred now a buyer really should give thought to moving up to a bigger truck if that’s where their needs are or might be.

Ultimately it comes down to priorities. If my budget is $xx,xxx and I need a truck to do truck stuff, have certain options, or try to hit a certain operating cost etc then all options should be explored. Especially since an optioned up 1/2 ton will cost as much as an HD truck, even with a diesel albeit with fewer creature comforts.

I really need to assess my needs, wants, and priorities. I will be the first to admit I like more creature comforts now that I’m in my 40’s, I have two big ass dogs and a nearly 5 year old boy and a wife. So a giant spacious cab is pretty much mandatory at this point, my 2007 Double Cab isn’t cutting it anymore.

In my limited experience of being married for nearly 19 years I have observed that the female of the species doesn’t appreciate long road trips in a small economy car. Additionally she will attempt to bring every stitch of clothing she owns on even the shortest vacations. She now does the same packing routine for the boy, although in fairness little boys will burn through clean clothes with alarming speed. Plus I am a homeowner so I have homeowner shit to do and haul. If left to her own devices my wife will go to Sam’s and buy enough frozen produce and meat to fill a chest freezer. I like to hunt, and otherwise go out and see nature, sometimes via mountain bike. Dead critters and bikes don’t do well in car trunks, I’ve learned this the hard way. So a truck is a good fit for the mix of stuff I do and routinely need space to haul. Specifically a full size.

By the time I option out what I need, and then add what I want the bill invariably comes out to between $67,000 to $75,000 once everything is accounted for. That’s a lot of money. That buys HD trucks or 1/2 tons, I can’t completely ignore the benefit of giving up a few gizmos I’ll only use like twice to get a lot more power and capabilities.

I wish Toyota would enter the HD truck market, but obviously they are not willing to play in that space. At heart I’m a Toyota truck guy where pickups are concerned, but dammit Toyota I’m not seeing a lot of value for the $$$ spent. At least not on paper. I really want to like the new truck, but the way option packages are put together is making it tough for me get what I want at a price I can accept.

 

I can get 18 mpg highway in my truck when it's loaded up with people and gear...

 

Because turbo lag sucks and they drink a lot of fuel if you actually drive them. My brother has a turbo in his daily right now. His next vehicle is going to be NA and his next fun car is going to be supercharged.