1st Gen. Lunch Table - General Discussion

Dude I really hope you don't regret this like I have. Worst decision I ever made with regards to my truck. Been 18 months of misery for me.

 

Damn you Noah!! This was the reason I stopped using my work computer to surf Tundras.com

 

I hope so as well. Did it run you down the master cylinder and proportioning rabbit hole?

 

Do you mean upgrading to the T100 MC? I have not. I replaced mine though. Adjusting the prop valve has done nothing to help. It's to the point where I've considered selling my 14WA calipers and trying 13WL's. The last thing I'm going to try is adjusting the booster rod. Someone suggested that recently.

 

Ouch, such a bummer. If I run into issues, I'll cut losses and bolt the 13s back on. I did a rear disc conversion on an old jimmy and sold it before I ever got the stopping right. It was the same kind of pain in the ass you seem to be having. If this fails, I'll look hard at those yellow pads or something that has as much grab as possible even if they burn down quick.

 

I don't have any complaints about my brakes. Granted I'm pretty light. The WL's do seem better than the WE's or whatever was stock on '02. I like being able to run 16's. EBC pads, I forget if they are orange or yellow or green or whatev.

Interestingly, the brakes on my '05 RC 2wd are the badassesst of all, I can hit that s hard and the thing stops on a dime. Helps to be light I guess.

 

Yeah, my 4r stops like no one's business. The ridgeline will never stop like that thing.

 

Our RAV4 stops on a dime too. Honestly, Toyota got like 99% of things right on our trucks except the brakes. The fact that the T100 has a better booster says a lot.

 

It's so weird. Like, my AC 1GT doesn't have nearly the acceleration I've seen of other members' DC 1GT, I feel like there are some engine differences there.

But like @daveeasa, I really have no major complaints about the brakes on my '06 AC. It brakes better than every disc/drum GM truck I've ever owned. My '06 AC brakes are about on-par with our old 2012 Highlander. Our 2020 Highlander definitely has way better stop-on-a-dime brakes, though.

 

I feel like the DC owners have more brake complaints, but maybe I just hear those ones. I'm gonna attack the fronts, rears and get my adjustments as good as I can and see how it goes. I know I am currently below factory fresh stopping. But I also went up in tire size and that's something.

 

Time for the jake brake mod? hahahaha

 

@jpink has the powerstop 13WL kit and I thought his brakes were fine. He let me drive it. If I could get those results I'd be happy. I was coming from the smaller 13WE's and figured I might as well go balls deep with the GX460 calipers. I should have just gone up one size.

The biggest issue with the 13WE's was brake fade. In rare "oh shit" moments it was the only vehicle I've owned that made me nervous. No matter how much harder I pressed the pedal, braking didn't improve like most vehicles.

I do want to stress what I've mentioned before. After I push my pedal once, the 2nd pump results in really good braking. Far better than the 13WE's. It's just extremely annoying having to double pump the pedal every time. Maybe I'll get the motivation to mess with the booster rod this weekend.

 

The symptoms you've given suggest either a booster issue, or the the pushrod needs to be adjusted for more length, IIRC.

I'm suspecting it may be the latter based on the pump-twice-and-it's-awesome bit. I don't think it's that hard to do in our 1GT but I haven't had to do it yet in mine. Noah has in his 2000 RC, though.

 

That was the silver truck that I replaced the booster, and master cylinder on with @Thrussn's t100 parts list.

I haven't touched the brakes on crackie yet.

 

I've never felt great about my brakes, but they've always done what they needed - except once. I think I must have overheated them or something, but I wasn't coming off a hill or anything. Moving fairly quick, light changed, cars stopped - plenty of room normally. Not this time, full fade and was like trying to stop with a weak parking brake. Fortunately, there was an empty lane because I was going into that car in front otherwise. A one off and not really related to the overall, but what a shitty feeling.

 

Does sound like a volume issue if you went from one piston to two on the calipers. I can't remember how many pistons are on stock, but I think 1? Or maybe just bigger pistons needing more volume.
@shifty` may be right about that rod.

 

That's the one. I remember you had to pop the rod in/out once or twice to get it adjusted just to the right length, or am I nuts?

If I'm not totally crazy, how difficult was it to pop the rod off the pedal and tweak it? Any significant work? It's typically not a chore when I've upgraded older vehicles to power brakes and needed new rods/rod adjustments.

That's my thought. It's taking more than one pump to get the required volume. Which makes me wonder, if the rod was extended and providing more leverage, if that would amplify things, eliminating the need for that 2nd push. Assuming the booster could handle it. I'd start small - 1/8" max, maybe 1/16" - and test. If closer but not there, go a thread or two more, test, rinse/repeat.

 

Do what you can to upgrade. I run the yellow pads and my weighted truck is not impressed. I also was suffering from “ice mode” so I run w/o my a b s and pump the brakes for best results. But dang, if I’m headed down a steep grade at slowest freeway speeds, if some fool pulls in tight in front of me to cut across lanes, dumbass better not slow in a hurry, ‘cause there’s no panic stop option. Hulk is a physics rules poster child.

 

No complaints about my brakes. Aside from the slight drag after getting home from hidden falls. Which seemed to be from dust on the pins.

But most everything else I’ve owned had single piston calipers.

I actually like the softer braking of the buell compared to the dual disc sportbikes. Much more modulation and I never scrub off too much speed.

 

”ice mode”

 

And now I didn't have to ask! TY

 

It's just odd that no one else that's done the big calipers has reported having to mess with the booster rod. I need to give it a shot and see. Adjust it outward towards the MC you think?

Same amount of pistons just bigger on the Lexus calipers.

 

Well, I did some research - and of course you know...13WE small, 13WL medium, Lexus large (to simplify). But, do you think anyone with your booster and master jumped from "small" to "large"? Or did they already have the 13WL?
In your case, what about just going to the 13WL? Does that one even need machining? Of course this sounds like a shit sandwich, but if it worked good for your buddy, maybe that's the ticket.

 

I agree, it's weird. And now I'm looking at the 1GT, it doesn't look like you can adjust anything on the pedal side; I've had older 60s/70s vehicles where you need to adjust both between the pedal and booster, then adjust the booster's internal rod.

Before you go through with this, does it seem like your brakes aren't starting to engage until you depress the pedal a little? And have you replaced the booster at any point in this process?

 

PS - If you want to fundamentally understand how power brakes work, it may help with using deductive logic. Here is the setup accustomed to working with - you can adjust the rod on the pedal side of the booster, and you can adjust the nipple on on the booster side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4Ka4__ws1E

 

Yes several people with early first gens have gone from from the small to large without issue(they claim). I've been skeptical that some people have confirmation bias and aren't being honest but who knows. I think it can be hard for some people to spend money and effort on something then admit it's not what they hoped. Some people did it and then upgraded to the T100 MC and booster.

No machining required. A lot of people went from 13WE to WL. They reported having to barely trim the dust shields which I've already done too. @Darkness pointed out a long time ago that the difference between 13WE and WL is actually pretty small though. His theory is that most of the improvement people reported was from bleeding their brakes and getting in new fluid. I bet some of these trucks had their original brake fluid. I miss Luis BTW.

The first time I press the pedal it travels an extremely long distance and doesn't provide much stopping power at all. The 2nd time I press it's nice and firm and the pedal doesn't travel as far. It will throw me forward in my seat if needed.

I've replaced the master cylinder but not the booster. I did the FSM test for both the check valve and the booster and it passed both. I'm not opposed to replacing it but I hate to keep throwing money at it and I would be stuck with a likely Chinese unit since Toyota discontinued the boosters.

Someone explain why we can still buy window trim but they discontinue the brake components.

 

Have you ever adjusted anything on th pedal side or done anything around the pedal, or where the booster attaches to the brake pedal? I feel like you replaced a spring somewhere down there, but don't recall what that process involved.

Refresh my memory, was it the EXACT same part for the new MC, and were things squishy BEFORE replacing the MC?

Whether yes or no, when you replaced the MC, did you measure to confirm if the inside bore of the MC was the same depth? Exactly what the guy is doing at the 1m29 mark in this '93 foxbody video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfsiNSxxjsA#t=1m29s

 

I just read the post you referenced I'm sure. But, my thought is that people likely had more issue than they admitted with the 13WE to GX460, like you said was possible. Why on earth would any of them chase the T100 MC and booster otherwise? It's also possible the 13WE to 13WL improvement has been overstated. But, it does appear the 13WE to the 13WL has worked across the board without getting worse. I still feel like it's a volume concern with the GX460 calipers. However, are there differences between the MCs and boosters between trucks originally running 13WE vs. 13WL? I don't know, but if not, my volume concern makes less sense.

@des2mtn , you have a fair amount of brake knowledge I believe?

 

Any detail on dust shield trimming? I just have missed that. I’ve had all sorts of dust shield noise and never thought about how I’ve changed the brakes. Can I just buy 2005 dust shields or they won’t bolt on right?