General Supercharger Thread.

RE: Tundra iForce Max. Great points about the Tundra. Early reports say it tows like a dream with the Hybrid set up; it is definitely not optimized for MPGs but I think Toyota was pretty clear about that up front. If it had a battery only mode the range was calculated to be in the single digits on the current battery.

RE: Aftermarket hybrid upgrade. Vonnen was one of the first out of the gate with a "mass market" system (for the mass market of specific Porsche models ) but the tech has been around a while.

They way they've used the pancake motor its basically equivalent to eMeth(a finite temporary boost). It was never intended to be for fuel savings as most traditional hybrids are categorized.

The low battery capacity, no regen braking, and as you point out ICE motor isn't optimized for efficiency are major drawbacks of this system if they were trying to go for fuel savings.

Even if the performance gains are temporary the numbers are fairly respectable 5.0sec to 3.6sec. For a bolt on system the design is fairly simple, looks reversible and not overly intrusive. It looks like its a intermediary launching pad project to me.

For the time being the hybrid space seems primarily focused on zero emissions (full conversion from ICE to EV), it is growing rapidly with an explosion of innovations.

The group to hit the market with a completely bolt on kit for below $10K (w/installation) will probably make a killing if they can get their product dialed in.

 

Should've, could've, those words costs millions if not billions in automotive world, much like the "small" 4.5L duramax that was being worked on back in early 2000's, GM even showed a concept back in 2007 ( https://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/29/sema-2007-chevy-suburban-hd-z71-diesel/ ) , that project was so close before it was axed, at that year's SEMA, toyota also showed a concept Tundra with dually and Hino's 8L diesel, I recall there was serious thought about bringing in the 1VDFTV (4.4L diesel) as an "HD" model with boxed frame throughout.

At low speed driving with low load, it's battery only, I've had one sneaked up on me with that UFO sound only to scare the bejesus out of me.

I don't think we will ever get a swap kit for below $10k, just material you are probably looking at $15-25k , you can probably realistically make swap kit with cradles that will place the battery pack between front and rear motor kinda like how F150 Lightning is built, and run the new e-axles that is just a solid axle but with electric motor as third member, I do see that as something picking up steam since that's how most EV commercial vans are built now.

 

As far as hybrid conversion, this “drop in axle” idea from Magna seems the easiest but I question if it will ever be available to us peasants at a some what affordable price. I would pay $15k if it saves me buying another truck.
I think it said its 100hp or something.

 

Cool, I haven't seen one in person and haven't heard anyone talk about this feature. Good to know it is capable of electric only.

I picked $10K because that tends to be the price difference between standard and hybrids of the same model; PreRona that was the price difference.

Vonnen is about $75K not sure how much is labor. They are pretty niche and small scale too. I still think there will be an opportunity in the space; the bigger challenges are building these as a parallel system. Most of the products coming to market are pure conversions.

That is cool, I haven't seen this one. It looks like a full conversion to all electric.

 

This is definitely straying from the purpose of this thread so I won’t engage in it too heavily. That said it is on the current topic. This is pretty wild. In this TFL video they’re comparing a gas truck with a small 24 gallon tank to the new Lightening and it still had at least twice the range towing a 6k lb camper. The range difference when towing from an EV to a gas truck with say a 38 gallon tank like mine is pretty drastic while towing. At its current level of advancement, it could never work for me anyway. They had to stop before reaching even 100 miles. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-e55Vued028

 

There are multiple e-axles like that in the works, we'll probably see first EV HD truck by 2023 as 2024MY or 2025MY, get ready for 1500lb ft of instant torque!

This thread has become supercharger support group chat! I'm a firm believer of hydrogen for commercial/long distance use, with BEV for intercity use, which also brought up a thought, has anyone run on natural gas while supercharged? saw fleet of ex-airport Tahoes being auction off and they are all running natural gas, makes me wonder a bit.

 

this was interesting...as it did not dwell on the fact the range gets cut drastically.

1/4 mile it did beat the TRX tho! (at CO altitude) maybe not so much in soup air Houston.

 

question.

would there be any advantage to be able to close the boost bypass valve manually? in addition to it's vacuum based closing.

or...how fast does the boost bypass close?

 

No doubt the lightening is a fast truck. If I wanted just fast though I’d buy a fast car. The SC tundra is fun cause it’s pretty quick but also does the truck part of the job very well which is truly primary for me. An EV truck should be able to do truck stuff. Not saying this one can’t do any truck stuff, but not the kind of truck stuff at the loads and distances I need at least. I could see how it would be fine for some suburbanites who just use it to get mulch every spring though.

As for your boost bypass valve question I don’t see the benefits of closing it manually but I also truly don’t know. I think it closes pretty quick when you get into the throttle. Sounds like a @snivilous question to me.

 

From my limited knowledge, we need the bypass valve for proper function, during low load and high vacuum the valve need to open in order to allow the rotors to spin freely or the backpressure would build up and then requires more engine power to turn the pulley.

Again, that's from my limited knowledge, my understanding is that it behaves much like a recirculation valve on a turbo car, specially one that uses MAF.

 

Copied from Tacoma world s/c thread. I did this in my old truck, curious if it transfers to the Tundra. Sucks to do on the Tacoma because it's in the back of the s/c, the Tundra looks like it's right up front.

Boost Bypass valve adjustment:

(Thanks to @Roostfactor):
A very difficult adjustment to do with the blower in place, but simple to do when the blower is off the vehicle due to it's location. The valve which is in charge of sealing the blower manifold to build boost pressure or allow vacuum during cruising and idle situations is maladjusted from the factory on most of these superchargers. They allow boost bleed out during full wide open throttle situations and are costing you boost. Adjust for better performance. Note: Adjustment to allow for a fully closed bypass valve at wide open throttle will cause slightly leaner readouts. I personally picked up .3 leaner points in my AFR.

Adjustment is performed via the small Allen head stud which the bypass valve lever stops on when WOT is engaged. Adjust counter clockwise to allow for further valve butterfly stop. You can physically feel the valve bind when you have went to far. Back it out just a hair and you'll hear a solid "tink" sound, which is your good to go audible indicator that it is fully adjusted and ready for playtime. Call it a day and it's all done and sealing better.

(Note: The blower is upside down in this photo, and the Allen head which requires adjustment has pink loctite on the threads of it.) This adjustment is accurate to a properly adjusted valve and is exactly where mine is adjusted to as well when I hear the audible "tink" sound.

 

I “Tink” one of the other Harrop guys should check this out and see if it’s applicable.

 

With the engine off, you can just flick it by hand to see how fast it moves. It seems like it has a pretty heavy spring...

 

So just received the larger pump but I'm seeing a potential problem. The lower filter fitting bracket does not fit the larger pump. Anyone have a part number of that piece that fits the Ti automotive 450 (Part number F90000267)? I also just ordered the install kit from summit. If not guess we'll see how it works out when they drop the tank. Might need to get the drop in aeromotive unit instead..

Install kit linked-https://www.summitracing.com/parts/vpn-400-1162

 

My stock pump didn't have a huge boot like that, mine just had a tiny boot. I forget if the boot swapped over or if the pump came with a new one...

There's nothing plug and play about the Aeromotive or the walbro, it's literally get the pump, crimp the wires onto the stock connector, and zip tie it inside the fuel pump housing don't overthink it. URD has a write up if you need more details, like use a Dremel to cut slits to run the zip ties through, but it's nothing fancy.

 

Perfect lol

 

I wouldn't say it's needed for proper function. From what I've read and experienced on my supercharged LS which I removed the valve completely and just locked the butterfly shut, is that removing the bypass just makes all the air go through the rotors (obviously) so there's arguably more wear and tear. But the rotors are spinning regardless, and until you are compressing the air beyond the point of the vacuum on the head side of the rotors then the rotors are essentially free spinning as much as they are normally (or that's my understanding). With the valve open the rotors are still compressing air, it's just that the pressure increase isn't forced into the head since it can escape into the bypass section. I'd be curious to know the actual difference the bypass makes, but I have yet to see anything obvious that threw me off with my LSA installed on a 5.7 and 6.0---with that said anyone who's read my thread knows those engines haven't seen a lot of driving time, which is why I say obvious since the blower seems to function and perform the same way as the Tundra does with a functional bypass.

 

Also idk if you have much experience with fuel systems but fuel is NOT conductive. So when you see exposed wires and connections inside the fuel tank, don't be alarmed.

 

https://www.fastfieros.com/tech/boost_solenoid_bypass_mod.htm

From the article:

"Boost Solenoid ByPass mod

Why even do it? Two reasons in my opinion. First and most important, does it hurt the engine, or help the engine? Its really there to relieve the NOISE of the supercharger... Striaght from Eaton's website > > Are superchargers noisy? The Eaton supercharger system incorporates a specially designed bypass valve, which is actuated by a vacuum motor near the throttle body and recalculates the supercharger air flow when boost is not required. During typical driving conditions, the engine is under boost around 5% of the time, which means the remaining 95% of the time the engine is under vacuum, allowing for better fuel economy and a quieter ride. In addition, the helix angled rotors, along with specially designed inlet and outlet port geometry, also reduce pressure variations resulting in a smooth discharge flow and a lower level of noise during operation. Careful attention to the techniques used in installing the supercharger also plays a major role in reducing the noise emitted by the supercharger."

 

Yep, I do know that! Thanks I'll see if I can find that URD article you mentioned.

 

This is saying fuel economy:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.c...charger-bypass-valve-theory-of-operation.html

 

That blue/white filter/strainer? It's just a press fit, I used a Dremel and shaved off all the high bits that interfered with the strainer fitting tight and flush against the bottom of the new pump. Those tabs? Gone too. I used to have a picture, but I deleted it thinking that I'd never have a reason to show it to someone.

 

Interesting. Watching Vik's video it looks like the tabs assist in holding it to the assembly but again nothing zip ties etc cant handle. I'll cut that strainer like you said and get it to fit around to seat on the larger pump.

 

Mmmm, go with what you see in the video. It's entirely possible that what I'm remembering is that I broke the tabs from the old strainer that I was using as kind of a prototype for fitment testing before carving up the new one. If I'm recalling correctly, there were just some high flat ridges that I needed to take down to flat with the rest of the surface. Dang, I wish I had those pictures...but I think it will make more sense when you have things apart and are looking at them.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O97GvWp8LdI

13:00 minute mark for reference

 

Oh, perfect. Right at 14:42 Viktor sets the strainer mating side facing up on his bench and you can see that "C" shaped ridge, I remember having to Dremel that down to flat. Some of it's coming back to me now!

 

+1 on the URD fuel pump instructions. Did that mod on the Tacoma last year and it was pretty thorough. Pump housings look the same

 

i emailed them to see if they could send since I didn’t see it in the site.

 

Not sure if this thread may be of any help. https://www.tundras.com/threads/urd-fuel-pump-kit-install-w-pics.73822/

 

it's long, but good. (explains c16 AFR as well)

tuning a twin S/C'd 540 ...with A/C & power steering!



will a big block fit in our engine bay?...asking for a friend.



I need that spark plug holder for my desk....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W7tzugL5TQ&ab_channel=SteveMorrisEngines