Be glad the tundra has a nickel-metal-hybrid battery pack

Quite condescending for someone who apparently knows very little about solid state tech. Yes, lithium can be used, but there are a wide variety of alternatives that are actually superior. Several synthetic examples are listed below.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_electrolyte

"Solid polymer electrolyte (SPE) are defined as a solvent-free salt solution in a polymer host material that conducts ions through the polymer chains. Compared to ISEs, SPEs are much easier to process, generally by solution casting, making them greatly compatible with large-scale manufacturing processes. Moreover, they possess higher elasticity and plasticity giving stability at the interface, flexibility and improved resistance to volume changes during operation.[23] A good dissolution of Li salts, low glass transition temperature (Tg), electrochemical compatibility with most common electrode materials, a low degree of crystallinity, mechanical stability, low temperature sensitivity are all characteristics for the ideal SPE candidate.[39] In general though the ionic conductivity is lower than the ISEs and their rate capability is restricted, limiting fast charging.[40] PEO-based SPE is the first solid-state polymer in which ionic conductivity was demonstrated both through inter and intra molecular through ion hopping, thanks to the segmental motion of the polymeric chains[41] because of the great ion complexation capability of the ether groups, but they suffer from the low room-temperature ionic conductivity (10−5 S cm−1)[42] due to the high degree of crystallinity. The main alternatives to polyether-based SPEs are polycarbonates,[43] polyesters,[44] polynitriles (e.g. PAN),[45] polyalcohols (e.g. PVA),[46] polyamines (e.g. PEI),[47] polysiloxane (e.g. PDMS)[48][49] and fluoropolymers (e.g. PVDF, PVDF-HFP).[50] Bio-polymers like lignin,[51] chitosan[52] and cellulose[53] are also gaining a lot of interest as standalone SPEs or blended with other polymers, on one side for their environmentally friendliness and on the other for their high complexation capability on the salts. Furthermore different strategies are considered to increase the ionic conductivity of SPEs and the amorphous-to-crystalline ratio.[54]"

 

The only concern here is the infrastructure to charge said cars. The current system can't support that at all.

 

Read more of that page and on solid state batteries in general and tell me what element Li is. There do not seem to be any alternatives that are even close to usable in something like a vehicle that needs very high capacity

 

Graphene is coming on the scene currently which will use aluminum; however, it is in in its infancy.
I agree lithium will be a limitation. Hopefully there can be a switch to a carbon based battery since carbon is so plentiful.

 

What the article actually says is that battery prices will increase 22% by 2026. And then they will drop in price. Considering that inflation is currently 7%, a 22% price increase in 4 years is not alarming.

 

To deviate a little for the current discussion, can anyone speak to the life expectancy of the battery unit in the Tundra? I know Prius’ have been around for decades but I have never heard of anyone replacing the hybrid batter. However, I recently saw the invoice for a friends Volt that had the battery replaced. It was over $26k!

I keep my vehicles for a long time. Currently own an ‘07 Tundra I bought new. So I don’t want to buy an iForce Max if I could be replacing the battery in 10 - 15 years.

Thanks!

 

https://www.torquenews.com/6626/toyota-hybrid-owners-speak-out-battery-length-and-cost


i believe the hybrid batteries have a 10 year or 150,000 miles warranty, it appears some are getting 200,000 to 300,000 miles on original hybrid (Prius)battery in the above article.

Does the Tundra hybrid also have a 12V accessory battery in the cabin ?

 

Infrastructure is built behind demand, not ahead of it. What infrastructure was available for Henry Ford, Westinghouse or Edison?

 

i just replaced my 07 SR5 with a 1794 Off Road. My battery warranty is 10 years, 150k miles. During the scarey session you sit through listening to why you need an extended warranty I was told replacing the hybrid battery was $2,400.00. I can live with that 10 years from now. Sales jerk also told me I could only use a Toyota 12 volt battery and it was over $800.00. I knew that was bs.

 

My issue is not with E vehicles, have at it if you're willing/able to craft your lifestyle around one.

My issue is the calamity I see coming down the line by increasing electricity demand that much as we get nudged towards less abundant and reliable supplies. Just does not strike me as a recipe for a long term happy ending.

I think hybrids are a great step but people taking plug in vehicles as a primary could eventually find their personal travels impacted by power rationing. Think of how often lately you see notices come out in different areas of potential rolling blackouts being imposed due to grid strain. For the first time I remember we got one in Pa a few months ago maybe for a cold snap I think, and it wasn't remotely close to the most severe Weather we ever had. It's the grid becoming less resilient due to bad policy. I don't even remember getting this notification during the infamous polar vortex from years ago when everybody cranked their heat through weeks of subzero temps.

Think of your power being turned off due to an overstressed grid but now if you want to get in your car to go somewhere that has power you may or may not have the juice to do it and you're unsure of when/where you can charge again.

I do not necessarily hate the technology, I am just looking at the bigger picture of what needs to be done to make it practical for more people long term and none of the math is adding up for me. And we're only moving further away from the right direction.

This is from a guy now driving a hybrid F150. When the technology looks practical I am happy to put my own money up
To help sell and improve it through economies of scale. Just staying away from anything with a plug. If others want to dive in head first and cheer lead more power to them. Let's talk about what a dinosaur I am in 5 years when it's 12 or 120 degrees out and the wind turbines can't keep up with everyone's home HVAC systems cranked at once and you want to take a road trip or go run errands. But the switch was flipped off on your sector to preserve capacity.

 

the big problem with pure ev's is the fill up. currently you only have so many slots to charge at when not at home. its not like you can fill up in 5-10 mins and get a full tank and be on your way (typical charge time on a ev is like 15-30 mins in the summer, add 30 mins if your battery pack is to cold to charge). and dont get me started on northern tier states and cold issues with ev's. when you have 3-400 mile range in summer and 150-200 in winter and god forbid you cant charge since your battery pack is too cold to charge compared to 10 mins to fill up a gas car and still get 4-500 mile range in -20F temps.

and as others have noted, as you add more ev's to charge, how is the power grid going to compensate for the loads. its not like you can add a charge area/station on every corner compared to gas stations.

 

you mention power rationing… my first experience with that was in the70’s with the Arab Oil Embargo. Spot supply shortages happen frequently, especially when a hurricane hits the gulf coast. Fuel pumps run on electricity too. No juice fir your charger, probably no juice for their pumps.

I’d love an ev for local driving and commuting. I have the space for solar panels, I could install a low velocity wind generator and deal with those issues too.

Change is coming and it was embraced by big business years ago.

 

When past is prologue

 

Very true with hybrids in winter, my hybrid Camrys get 40+ ez in spring/summer, basically full ev mode coming off freeway for last mile+ before going home. In winter it's 30+

Seldomly engages in fall/winter even when I been cruising 10-15mins on freeway, and I don't even live in that cold of weather just 30 or high 20s a few weeks in winter majority time is 40ish.

Also not only severe cold, but my area in Cali has had major fires since 2017 and our PGE energy companies have been found at fault for lack of maintenance, so anytime they get high winds they shutdown the grid

 

Our infrastructure has been going to shit for 40 years. People seem to be clueless about the massive investment made prior to that. Now we can't even afford to maintain what was already built.

 

That's very interesting to know re: the price you were quoted for the hybrid battery and I agree - I can live with $2400 in 10+ years. So is that the standard warranty on that battery? If not, how much was it and is it considered the "Platinum warranty"?

Also, if you don't mind a question in a different direction, I've been struggling trying to decide between a 1794 TRD OR versus a Platinum 4x4. I want the TRD for the improved suspension, drive modes and the locking rear diff, but I prefer the blacked-out (by comparison) look of the Platinum. My question is: did the TRD benefits play a major part in your decision or was it even an issue? Did you just like the 1794 more (maybe for other reasons) or did you even consider the Platinum?

Thanks in advance.