Hybrid mpg

They possibly could, but you don't want that volatile lithium ion safety hazard in the cab. Alternatively, you have to sandwich it under the cab and between the frame like the Ford (with higher future repair costs, not to mention yet even higher costs now too for a lithium ion pack). Neither is optimal but given today's options, I think they might have done the right thing if they were to do it at all anytime soon.

Will be sweet though if they would offer an easily installed plug in solid state upgrade down the road.

 

Yes the v6 makes more torque than the old 5.7. but a modern V8 turbo could make more than the TTV6. My point was that the TTV6 + Hybrid was their answer to competing with new V8 torque numbers by other brands.

 

What new V8 torque numbers from other brands? The 3.5L TTV6's from Toyota and Ford both make more torque than all of them including the 7.3L Ford V8.

Twin turbo V8 isn't going to happen. NOx emissions alone will make automakers shy away.

 

Toyota cancelled their V8 turbo project

But the big 3 have force induction V8s. TRX has one, Escalade V and Raptor R will have one too.

 

Here ya go. Watch these get better MPGs. Hot off the press

https://youtu.be/rpMWOW_2XaM

 

Here ya go what? Speculation about a 3/4 ton and up truck?

Dude you lost the argument, just let it go.

 

A. I'm not arguing with you.

B. If Ford is putting out a turbo V8 hybrid, the then my position that the combo works is supported. Especially if these v8 turbo trucks get better mpg than the current ttv6 hybrid.

 

And it looks like your assumptions could be wrong here per that speculation video.

 

Uhhh dude all I got from that was a turbodiesel V8 hybrid is possible. Are we comparing a 1/2 ton gas TTV6 to a HD pickup with a big turbodiesel now?

Furthermore what bizarro thought process would lead you to believe that Toyota developed their iForceMax to compete in any way with HD pickup truck engines?

 

It is exhausting talking to you. My points posted above I think are consistent. Accurate or not they flow well. I think they make sense. Not to you apparently.

Oh well. .

 

What attracts me is not the MPG, but the 110lbs of torque. However, it's a miss for me. Tundra loses cargo under rear seats and Sequoia loses third row space due to battery location. I like the Hybrid idea, but they should have thought more about the battery location.

 

I get it that Toyota may not have had the hybrid efficiency numbers approved yet by the epa when they released the numbers on the non hybrid, but I’m starting to doubt that. It really is funny to me that they waited to release the hybrid mpg numbers for a couple of months after the non hybrid numbers as though there was some kind of build up to something big. I think they should have just released them all at the same time rather that building up suspense for a let down. Especially since the hybrid power train was not designed with efficiency in mind.

 

It seems they’re doing it based on when the vehicle will come off the line. Since the hybrid release time is later, they’re certifying the fuel economy later.

 

That is exactly what the Toyota engineers designed the hybrid truck for, performance, towing, and doing truck stuff not to be a LIFTED Pruis with a bed. I hear Honda is improving their Rigdeline to meet what many on here want, a 30 plus mpg truck good for nothing but light truck stuff and a Honda accord like ride. My neighbor said his new 2022 Tundra gets better fuel economy then his work 2021 F150 hybrid running down the fwy and better towing loads over 6000 lbs. The f150 definitely gets better mpg in the city because he can hyper drive it and stay on the battery. Personally, I drive my truck like a truck is meant to be driven especially when it has over 400 hp.

 

How exactly is a truck "meant to be driven"?

 

Yeah, is seems that such a tiny battery could easily have been located elsewhere so as to not delete the under seat storage. Remember this is a 1.8kWh battery in a 20' long 6000# truck. And even though the 2022 Tundra was a clean sheet of paper design the battery location seems like almost an afterthought. Or perhaps a result of the platform being shared by so many different vehicles?

 

Somehow Ford, which is a very similar vehicle, managed to fit it between the frame rails on the Powerboost.

 

I don't have the drawings and battery dimensions so I can't tell you that exactly. But here's the thing... based on a very rough calculation using my 52V 1.2 kWh lithium e-bike battery that weighs about 8 pounds the Tundra battery will weigh something like (1.8/1.2)*8*5 (the factor of 5 is because the Tundra voltage is 5x the e-bike battery so will have 5x cells in series). That makes the Tundra battery about 60 pounds. It probably weighs a bit more since it is NiMh and not lithium, and probably has a robust case. So call it 100 pounds. There has to be plenty of other places they could have put that in a 6000 pound truck. Wouldn't take all that much thought.

 

I looked over the Ford Powerboost very closely at a recent auto show to determine just that (how did they solve this issue?). I too don't want to give up that space under the seat. On the Ford, we couldn't find it.

Finally brought in one of the Ford reps and he didn't know and couldn't find it either. So he looked into it for us and found a cutaway drawing of it. It is sideways under the rear seat just like the Tundra but underneath the cab and above the frame. So pretty sure that's a cab off repair waiting to happen.

 

So on the Ford you have to remove the cab in 10+ years, while on the Toyota you might need to do it within the first month.

 

Might be able to slide out sideways? These are very small batteries.

 

Looks like you could pull the muffler and exhaust pipe then tip the one end down and drop it out. Maybe. I wonder what the Ford FSM says?

 

From looking at the truck while looking at the pics, I think those chances would be very small if not impossible. However, while I currently drive a Ford, I'm not a Ford tech or engineer so if anyone on here has access to that info or pics, please share.

Yes, I'm disappointed with where the battery is on the Tundra but when looking at it all very closely, in the end, I think their design overall is very likely the best approach, given the challenges they have with today's technology.

And while I'll overcome that (6.5' bed, truck box, etc.?), I get that some may not like it and may pass. But I don't think the other brands are the answer. If this is a no go for you now, wait ~3 years or so and the game will change.

 

Thanks for sharing. This is a different pic than what the Ford rep showed me. Maybe he found a pic of a prototype? Agreed from this pic that with dropping exhaust, driveshaft, fuel tank , etc., could possibly come out from below.

 

Yeah, although not a small job, it does appear doable without removing the cab.

 

Ford battery is liquid cooled and Toyota battery is air cooled.

Battery in the Ford is removed after removing the driveshaft and fuel tank. https://elvsolutions.org/wp-content...-150-Hybrid-Battery-Removal-Guide-12-8-20.pdf

 

Thanks for sharing and correcting me on the Ford's location. Looks like a better approach than what was indicated to me at the auto show. We did see that box on the actual truck we were looking at and said that was the power on board inverter (that truck had the large size power on board system) but per your info, that is obviously not the case. Good too see that while not the easiest to get to, better than under the cab.

 

Yeah it seems Toyota approach is cost/benefit of lithium vs nickel. Plus I think supply chain issues like you mentioned. I’m sure price of cobalt and lithium doesn’t help either. I guess Toyota figured an air-cooled NiMH battery was enough for most owners and would keep costs down. If lithium added fuel economy, they probably would have gone with lithium instead. For awhile they offered a special FE model of the Prius with a lithium pack while other Prius got NiMH with slightly lower fuel economy. I just checked and now all FWD Prius get lithium and AWD Prius get NiMH. I’m not sure why Toyota does this but maybe cost?