Hybrid mpg

Wish it weren’t the case, but so far I’m not as excited to buy one as I had hoped. So far I’m seeing average performance for an above average price, and that doesn’t equal good value.

 

Here is Car and Driver's take on hybrid MPGs. Not instrumented tests but based on driving both hybrid and nonhybrid versions and observing the display. This is also what I expect based on Toyota's supposed design goal to provide mostly a power boost.

"We'd guess the i-Force MAX picks up 1 or 2 mpg in the city but doubt it betters the 22-mpg highway for the nonhybrid 4x4."

Tested: 2022 Toyota Tundra Pickup Goes Big (caranddriver.com)

 

According to a salesperson in TN with “a very informed insider for Toyota” it’s supposed to be 30-32 mpg and have a $4000 price difference.

 

I’m doubting that big time, but I’d be glad if it’s true.

 

LOL.

I know the guy you’re talking about. He’s going to be wrong.

 

No way. Simple physics... and a very small battery pack.

 

I’m waiting for the numbers to drop so I can go shitpost on his video.

 

Hybrid details are apparently coming out this week, my sales guy has a training course on the 18th for it. I’ll try and update the same day if I can get a hold of him.

 

You too?

I am going to be in there shit posting so hard he turns comments off.

 

He deserves it for sure but not worth wasting the time to pile on.

 

I don’t value my time very well so

 

Back when I heard Toyota was making a hybrid Tundra I thought that would be the one for me. And looking at the frame off video it looks like a very clean and robust implementation. It should be, they have a LOT of experience with this. But I was assuming they were going to focus on better MPG, not a power boost... which might be great if you were doing a lot of towing and such. But that's not my use profile so the cost won't be worth it and the non-hybrid will probably make the most sense for me. That is if I ever decide to get one. Not gonna be an early adopter and will wait for the wastegate-gate to be resolved at a minimum.

It would be cool if they could make the hybrid system operation parameters tunable or selectable to focus on a specific owner's needs and maybe offer a larger plug in battery option in a future update.

 

I’ll go out on a limb and predict the hybrid only gains 1 mpg over the regular truck. Unfortunately the regular Tundra isn’t putting up very good fuel economy numbers so far.

At this point the run down looks like the iForceMax is going to:

1.) Cost a lot more than the already expensive iForce equipped Tundra.

2.) Produce mid pack acceleration among top level optional engines in class up to around 80 MPH where Car and Driver logged it falling on its face.

3.) Probably not return significantly better fuel economy than the regular iForce, which is to say mediocre at this point.

I was really excited about this engine option but the more I see, read, and hear the less I am inclined to buy one or any Toyota truck for that matter.

 

Based on what I know so far, I believe Car and Driver will be spot on. The hybrid should add 1 or 2 MPG in city driving due to regen during stop and go. But on a steady state highway test cycle that mimics a flat drive on the highway the battery is just too small to add much help for very long... and there is far less opportunity for regen... in fact on a flat highway drive there is NO regen. So all you have is the ICE moving the regular truck plus the extra weight of the battery and motor/generator. So, I expect it will be as C/D posits, no improvement on the highway.

 

until you slow down, go down a hill, etc, the. It will Regen. I’m willing to be city goes up 3-6 and highway is 2-5 better (dreaming for 4-5 better)

 

I wish you were right but you ARE dreaming. Flat highway cycle or drive means essentially no regen. Flat means no hills to go down. Stopping for a burger or pit stop every couple of hours won't recapture anything significant.

 

1-2mpg gain Highway
3-5mpg gain city

Based on experience with 3 Toyota hybrids.

 

Come on... link it up here. Might as well get some preemptive shit posting going!

This is not like other hybrids; this one is very mild. Sweers is the chief engineer for the Tundra, and he said right in the video that the hybrid was for power not mpg improvement.

 

Luckily I live and drive in hilly and mountainous areas so I’ll have plenty of Regen opportunities!

 

Those other models were designed more to enhance MPG.... smaller engines in the first place, lower level of hybrid power boost. So I don't believe this experience will correlate closely. I have driven Prius on business trips and they were really impressive for MPG. And decently responsive.

 

But on highway drives even with hills you usually will need to be on the throttle to some extent to maintain 70 MPH or more. Especially in a Tundra that is such a blunt instrument. So no regen there either. Unless the hills are VERY steep. City hills are a whole other thing and they will help. But I don't see it being more than a couple MPG due to the extra weight.

 

Not comparing, Prius, Camry, RAV4 etc.
To the Tundra… The gains will be significant. 2 things Toyota does better than all others, reliability and Hybrids.

 

We agree on one thing, Toyota does good hybrids. Point is the design parameters and performance goals are different for this beast. Doesn't look like MPG was the primary consideration.

 

K..then shit on my posts when the numbers come out…

 

No need for that. It will be what it will be. And if it turns out near as good as you believe... and proves out in the real world... that may make it more attractive to me. It does look like a great system.. except it is strange using a metal hydride battery. I didn't know anyone used anything but lithium.

Not sure if anyone here remembers but this sort of hybrid system has been done before, WAY back in the day by Honda. When Toyota and others came out with MPG oriented systems Honda took a contrarian approach. They had a hot rod version of the Accord with a ~275 HP V-6. They added a hybrid version that used the exact same powerplant but with a hybrid boost. Same power plant, small battery, primarily meant to add power on demand. Sound familiar? I didn't go back and look up the MPG numbers but the hybrid's weren't much better... but it did have that extra 40HP or so boost.

That concept was not successful mainly because the baseline car was already fast enough. Makes more sense with the Tundra where that boost can help loaded or towing, especially up hills.

 

Good idea.

https://youtu.be/OBpaOVh6pXY

 

The nickel metal hydride battery is probably not helpful. Toyota picked it because it’s cheaper than lithium ion. They’re going to charge more money for their hybrid, that costs them less to make increasing their profit margin.

Unfortunately that leaves us with a battery that is significantly heavier, and less powerful for its size than lithium ion. In addition to the first two negatives nickel metal hydride is not capable of discharging as rapidly or recharging as rapidly. So in reality it’s going to be less powerful and less responsive. Then there’s the issue of nickel metal hydride batteries and “battery memory” when discharged too much. That 1.87kW is possibly going to be like a Toyota fuel tank….. claims to have capacity but you can’t actually use it in practice.

 

Metal hydride is certainly the cheap choice but the charge and discharge rates should be fine if designed for the installed motor generator ratings. The main issue is less power density so more weight... but with such a small battery pack even that difference is a very small % of a Tundra's curb weight or GVW. And maybe life? I dunno. But it is probably enough battery for the designed boost function, and probably cheaper to replace.

 

The TRD Pro is a solid 4 seconds slower to 100 mph than a Ford PowerBoost. That is an eternity, and tells me the iForceMax isn’t delivering on that extra power.