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Front locker on 1st Gen

Discussion in '1st Gen Tundras (2000-2006)' started by Voss, Apr 4, 2021.

  1. Jan 14, 2022 at 10:09 AM
    #91
    sdub

    sdub New Member

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    I created an account just to reply to this thread.

    I come from years of rock crawling with a SFA 85 4runner. I had 37s with 5.29, stock single transfer case and a rear Aussie (lunchbox / ratchet locker) Also had a 3X electric locked FJ80, stock gears on 37s.
    With only a rear locker installed in the 4runner I was able to do 4+ (out of 5) trails back home. That means ~4' boulders and body damage expected.

    BUT the everyday drivability with the full locker suffered greatly. I'd take corners wider because you're basically scrubbing one wheel. In reverse out of parking spaces you could crank the full turning radius. But going forward even at low speeds and full turning lock, the rear would scrub, hop, push on dry pavement. So it was always to coast into a parking space in neutral so the locker has none / little load on it. You were always aware it was back there binding up constantly. I had probably 2 or 3 instances of the rear locker binding or unloading at full highway speeds and lurching the whole truck into the left lane. I have no idea why but it was terrifying on 37s.

    This would all be mitigated slightly I'd imagine with a heavier truck. (1st gen 4runners are only 3k lbs) But I wouldn't go Aussie / lockright or any lunchbox again.

    There is NO way I'd put a lunchbox on a front differential without selectable hubs. They do not always disengage properly or predictably. This is why: with selectable hubs you can engage only 1 wheel at a time. So theoretically you could have 1 front and both rear wheels (with a rear locker) and predictable on road manners. With both front wheels locked you are creating a ton of bind up. The reason this is suspicious is imagine driving on a road that has some dry patches, some snow patches, some gravel patches. And both front wheels turning at the same rate. The lunchboxes will not disengage like they try to convey. They will / can stick and push the truck wherever it wants to go. The front especially (also rear) wheels need to spin at drastically different rates. Australia doesn't get snow, so high speed 4x4 isn't really ever needed unless its 100% dirt.
    A single youtube video of a guy experimenting for 10 minutes is not nearly enough scenarios to show why front lunchbox is a bad idea. On a fully unplowed road where the front tires can slip around I'm sure its relatively mild. But add in dry spots and slick spots and front end binding around turns or high speed you're asking for some white knuckle moments.

    Front or rear LSD always seemed useless to me because the wheels speeds you need for it to lock up are quite high. You cannot get it to lock at low wheel speeds (from my experience with stock LSD) It is great for mudding or high speed drift situations but zero help crawling.

    I've never had an air locker but you're still relying on electrical connections to the actuator etc. Air makes sense to me only if you have another use for a compressor. Airing down / up tires etc. An air locker still has an electric solenoid (just like what's on an e-locker) to divert air to the locker and an electric air compressor. So you're just adding more complexity / possible failure points with air. Although its probably more "instantly" locked because it has more power at the actual locker in the diff.

    For my $ I'd go electric selectable locker in the rear only. No air lines, no extra bs. Electrical connections last 50 years without failure everywhere else.
    There is a reason that 30 year old Toyota factory electric lockers still work. Sure it takes 1 second to turn on, but you almost never turn it on 1/2 way up a hill. Its easy to estimate the situations you need it in and turn it on beforehand. Drive 5 feet and boom locker is engaged. If there is almost any wheel movement a (factory) Toyota e-locker will engage. Most times it will engage if there is no load on the diff without movement.

    Rear locker only will get you 95% of the places you want to go even with aggressive rock crawling.
    You could do Rubicon, Moab most things with only a rear. Your truck will have plenty of other weak points before you max out the capabilities of a single rear locker. (shit tires, low clearance problems, not low enough gearing, turning radius!!! etc)

    Sorry but my relatively bad experiences with auto lockers I wanted to share. Only for a trail rig really and have no business in a DD / street truck. F-them and spend 2X more for any electric locker. Its so much nicer in every way for a few hundred dollars.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022
  2. Jan 14, 2022 at 11:06 AM
    #92
    KNABORES

    KNABORES Sarcasm incoming

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    Now that folks, is a first post. Welcome aboard sir! Bravo
     
    RoninGSX, Darkness, bmf4069 and 3 others like this.
  3. Jan 14, 2022 at 1:13 PM
    #93
    rock climber

    rock climber New Member

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    Agree, thanks for sharing!
     
  4. Jan 15, 2022 at 5:02 PM
    #94
    2002tii

    2002tii New Member

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    I like your awareness regarding lockers. Though it seems the OP has already figured out his rig, it helps me plan on mine. Im more in the 5 difficulty trail camp, and like one of the other members, the truck will be driven by kids. Electric rear may be my path.
    I have only dealt with OEM electric lockers, never had any issues, I imagine you either chase a wire or use a mallet if not really broken. If it was a dedicated machine, then I would consider f/r air lockers, or a different rig.
    ditto!
     
  5. Mar 2, 2022 at 12:22 AM
    #95
    Green01

    Green01 New Member

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    Hey so this is a great thread… I think it changed my mind about three different times!

    I have a 01 on 35s and I think I just stripped my front diff. Was hunting this fall in the Rockies and had to send it up a incline. Rear wheel spun out front came off the ground and slammed down real hard, the whole truck shut off actually. Ever since then I have had a funny little thump thump coming though the floor boards and steering. Thought it was my CVs threw those in and did all the front suspension so I think I am stuck with the diff.

    anyways thinking of the lunch box front diff to replace the spider gears?
    But I drive Colorado winters and that means highways in 4wheel. Guessing my best bet would be a front e locker? What one would you guys suggest ? Eaton probably?

    also while I am at it I am gonna regear now that I am running 35 and going into the diff anyway. Any recommendations?
     
  6. Mar 2, 2022 at 12:37 AM
    #96
    assassin10000

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    Eaton if you want electric selectable or arb if you also want on board air.
     
  7. Mar 2, 2022 at 11:54 PM
    #97
    Green01

    Green01 New Member

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    I have an onboard air set up waiting to install. It’s not an arb one. Good brand just can’t remember the name. Does the ARB need a proprietary compressor or psi? Or can any compressor and tank work?
     
  8. Apr 12, 2022 at 12:58 AM
    #98
    Slp82

    Slp82 New Member

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    2014 Tundra 4x4 5.7L DC; Bilstein 6112s @ 1.9"; 35x12.50 Nitto Ridge Grapplers on 20x9 wheels with +25 backspacing; DV8 front & rear bumpers, Engo 12k winch (SOLD) 2005 Tundra RC 4.7 4x4 w/3" spacer, addicted offroad tube winch bumper w/9k Engo, homemade sliders, skid row skid plate, 285/75r16 Cooper AT3, Detroit trutrac in rear.
    I do not have the experience level you do in rock crawling, but I can say this with 100% certainty. I had a 2004 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 with a lunch box locker in the rear and I agree with everything you said about them, especially it wanting to jump into the other lane during high throttle situations. I had a good years worth of experience doing some minor crawling with it, so I know what a locker can do.

    Now that said, later I bought a 2005 Tundra 4x4 and after my experience with the lunch box locker on the rear, swore I would never do that to my daily driver again. After much research and breaking some spider gears in the rear (4.7L with the higher HP and 33s), I needed a rear end rebuild so went a head and had a Detroit Trutrac (helical gears LSD; no friction clutches to wear out, uses basically worm gears), and I literally have about 40 hours logged of more serious crawling up at one of the largest off-road parks in Texas northwest of Austin in the hill country. I went up there before and after with this same truck and the Detroit Trutrac makes a night and day difference! I honestly can't tell almost any difference between this and the lunch box locker I had in my Tacoma except this is silky smooth and no clunking and no jerky crap when daily driving.

    I was even just pushing the limits of it this last weekend. In fact at one point I had my front right tire completely in the air, and back left completely in the air, and came to a complete stop, then proceeded and it pulled right through the same as a locker would. I was shocked because my understanding was even these helical style LSDs don't lock up 50/50 like a locker, but whatever the amount is, it will EASILY pull me through the worst situations with ease. Best mod I ever did hands down! I can follow anyone with a rear locker no problem. In fact I completed every 1 diamond, 2 diamond, 3 diamond, and a few 4 diamond trails out there. As you stated about a rear locker, the limiting factor was my basically tires/ground clearance. I really need 35s (currently have like 32.5" tires). I wish they made a Detroit Trutrac for the front. I would be all over it hands down!

    Just wanted to share my experience with a LSD, specifically the Detroit Trutrac. Although I highly suspect the helical gears style it is, is what gives it this level of performance.
     
    rock climber, tokolosh and bmf4069 like this.

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