Surround Sound.. Any Audiophiles in the room?

So I'm getting in a new receiver this week, Onkyo TX-RZ50, capable of doing 9.2. Right now I'm doing the standard 5.1, but looking to add at least another pair of speakers.

I want to add rear speakers higher up on the wall, facing down towards me, and not sure if it would be better for the to be "surround back", or "height" speakers. Which would be better for movies, games, etc.?

 

You would use surround back if going for a 7.1 set up. I have been installing home audio systems on the side for years (mostly used gear and mid-budget admittedly). The "height" speakers are for ATMOS set-ups.....If you are looking for "better" sound for gaming, movies, etc. I would recommend using the height speakers, but they are for the front stage. The surround back speakers would give an "immersive" sound but most rooms are not designed to accommodate the proper setup of these (running wires across the floor, floorplan, etc).

 

I think the first question is: How are your current speakers set up?
Some 5.1 setups go L, R, C then place the other two speakers at the back like traditional surround back speakers while others use a hybrid position part way between where side (or surround L/R in this case) and the back (surround back L/R) would be.

This is kind of a guess since there are a lot of variables here (room size, ceiling height, wall material, etc), but initially I'd go with a 7.1 speaker placement using L,C,R then the surround (speakers placed immediately outboard/abeam the primary listening position) and surround back outputs (speakers at the back corners). Onkyo uses Dirac Live which will let you tune for the best sound regardless of how high the speakers are on the back wall. Trying to use the height channel for the backs would be a little more challenging for the system to get to balanced and make time-of-arrival correct for ATMOS applications. This option would mean that speaker positions can stay the same if (or more accurately, when) you decide to add traditional height speakers (highly recommended).

 

My speaker are all MartinLogan and currently I have the Center ( ML 8i ), then the left and right ( ML 4i ), and then the sub (Klipsch 12"). My surround speakers ( ML 2i ) are on stands on each side of my couch, turned towards me. So that's why I was asking if it's better to do full on back surrounds or the height. I'm looking at some Klipsch reference speakers that I can mount higher on the wall behind me and face down towards me. (They'd have to be higher because I have a kitchen bar behind me that is open) It would only be about 10' maybe from where I'd be sitting and where these will be mounted. Was going to run speaker wire from my receiver in the front, up the wall, through the attic, and out where they will be installed. Oh and my living room is an A frame, so it's fairly open.

 

Here is a front and rear view of my living room. You can see my old tiny speakers I used to have on each side of my couch.

 

So "height" speakers really aren't standalone speakers like the others....they are specially matched to provide true ATMOS listening experience. I would definitely go with surround back speakers for what you are trying to do. If you want height speakers they really should be angled and installed on the front of the sound stage AND the rear sound stage. But many people (due to varying reasons like budget, room size and configuration and AVR capabilities) only choose to install on the front stage.

 

Ok, so surround backs would make more sense then. They'd just be mounted higher and down towards me above that kitchen bar area in the photo. Based on my receiver photo above, the "surround back" and "height 2" had me a little confused on which is which.

Think that would work pretty well for movies and gaming, or honestly just a waste of money?

 

Here are the speakers I'm looking at getting. From what I can tell, MartinLogan dont make angled speakers.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/klipsc...l-speakers-pair-black/6241805.p?skuId=6241805

 

At this time, probably a waste of money and may cause more issues for you chasing down a rabbit hole. If you have to have them, I would mount them on the front stage. The problem you may have is that you don't want them to overpower or overperform your "main" speakers. I am not one of those people that say you HAVE to match brands and lines of speakers but timbre matching is real. Having a higher sensitivity or wattage or frequency range can really throw things out of whack and drive you crazy as a listener. I would ask a lot of other questions before you invest in another set of speakers just for the sake of expanding. Have you calibrated your system? That alone will knock your socks off. after that, if something is missing you may want to look at upgrading other parts of the system before you invest in another set of speakers.

I will be honest with everyone that asks me and say you can get a hell of a system on a budget with used gear. And I have NEVER had a disappointed customer with 5.1 surround sound. I almost exclusively recommend SVS subwoofers as there is no better improvement you can make (in my opinion) when you can calibrate a system and pressurize a room with a subwoofer that blends seamlessly with other speakers. Your Martin Logans should do a fine job and when calibrated will impress you so much more. The beauty is when the speakers are an afterthought - all you hear is perfectly blended sound coming from around the room and not from a single speaker. People try to shake foundations with subwoofers and often times sounds like absolute shit with muddy distorted bass. My favorite is when listening to U571 you can here AND FEEL each depth charge explode, each pipe burst, the rushing water surrounds the room, etc or the matrix with the lobby shooting spree or finding nemo when darla is pounding on the aquarium......and so many other scenes that I use to sell my wife on "see how GOOD this sounds!?!?" She has surprisingly never said no.

Sorry, I nerded out there for second

 

So then you think front "height" speakers are better then the "surround back" speakers? Hummm... I'm just looking to take advantage of what more this new receiver can do compared to the one I'm currently using. So once it's installed, then I can calibrate and I'm certain will sound awesome. But if adding more speakers can open another area of sound that I'm currently missing, I'm very interested. I just wasn't sure how much of a difference it would actually make or not.

 

Yes if you are set on getting more speakers I would do the height speakers on the front stage. Technically these are designed to sit on top of existing speakers though and not sure your "mains" are big enough for that. That's how I have my set up right now (because of a lack of room versatility more than anything else). It will be a noticeable and worthwhile difference but make sure you calibrate the system - and fire up your favorite war movie.....

 

That sounds similar to the setup at my previous house. We had a cathedral ceiling with another lower section in back that went into the dining area. I had to put the surround rears up high behind the couch and used the surround back outputs and got really nice sound out of a 7.1 system. A frames and cathedral ceilings make height speakers a problem, though as Shawn 474 pointed out in your application it isn't as bad as it could've been. You could still put some height speakers up, but they will have to be angled appropriately and it won't be a "clean" install as the easiest route would be a surface mount.
Even with similar issues on each of my last three houses the 5.1 or 7.1 systems worked very well. In our current house I finally got my theater room. Sizing worked out almost perfect and I put in a 7.1.4 ATMOS system using KEF R series for L,C,R, SBR, SBL their T series for SR,SL and four of. their THX in-ceiling speakers. Matching speakers helps, but I would think that Dirac Live will sort out the differences in output from each speaker. I'm using an Anthem receiver and the ARC (similar to Dirac Live) balanced out the speakers very well. The weak point in the system, which should be the T series speakers I'm using at surround L/R, perform exceptionally well once ARC balances all the outputs.

 

Right on. Going to continue to do some research on everything but I really appreciate your input. I can only imagine some of the setups you've seen or worked on, this stuff can get crazy, ha.

 

Just to reiterate, the speakers that you linked are designed to sit atop existing tower or larger bookshelf speakers - not necessarily mounted on the wall / ceiling. The purpose of this speaker is to angle upwards and bounce off the ceiling to "envelope" the room.

Like this:

 

Those Anthem AVR's are incredible machines and ARC works as well as any other proprietary room correction I have seen. The ease of "all in one" speaker sets and the big box avr's cannot be understated, but I prefer to put together piece by piece. I am partial to KEF, Polk Audio (more of their older offerings honestly like the LSIm series), def tech and even energy for speakers; marantz, athem, outlaw and pioneer elite for AVR / pre's; SVS for subwoofers.