If I buy the 2021 instead of 2022, will the 5.7 litre be worthless in 10 years?

Gasoline is not going away in 10-20 years. Banks have new SBA program approving loans to c-store / gas stations, they are passing loans with even 15% down. Loan terms have been increased from 12 years to 20 years loan.

 

I found an in-state dealer that is NOT charging above MSRP. They have a new 2021 TRD Pro for $56k that someone put a deposit on, but it isn't a done deal. I'm very tempted if it becomes available. I'm next in line if it falls through.

 

I have a plant based plastic phone cover, and it's fucking garbage. After a couple weeks on the phone it started to stretch, after a few months my py phone can actually fall out of the malleable garbage.

I don't know, but I'd think the amount of acreage required to produce the world's plastic needs from plants would be ridiculously huge.

 

But just think of how much carbon those plants and products will capture and remove from the atmosphere.

 

If heaven aint got no five seven i dont want to go..

 

Well sure. Let's bulldoze everything that's not a plant and replace it with plants.

 

The average age of a vehicle on the road is 11.9 years old. Some older, some newer. The ratio of new cars that are electric can keep going up without gas going away. These things can exist in tandem.

 

Yep, even if we went fully electric today with no new ICE engines, we are still looking at 20-30 years before gas goes away. That is one reason why I do think it is important for us to start looking at the future.

 

I mentioned infrastructure earlier in this thread…

Look at the states that have large parcels of wilderness. There is no way in the foreseeable future that they are going to retrofit these areas to handle the electricity demand. And if they do it it’s going to be with generators that burn fossil fuels. Which defeats the whole purpose of EV vehicles. Gas isn’t going anywhere at the moment no matter how many electric vehicles are sold. Electric vehicles are beneficial for city driving and they are NO where advanced enough to handle long distance driving. Despite what BS they want us to believe. Hybrid technology is the best mix of efficiency we have at this time IMHO (golf clap Toyota). Gas simply is not going anywhere for a long time…

 

That's one way of looking at it. The other way is that the vast majority of Americans could drive electric cars without a problem.

 

You're right gas isn't going anywhere for a long time. Like I said above, even if we 100% switched today, we will still have ICE engines on the road for 20-30 years, so doesn't it make sense to start looking at better alternatives? If we wait another 20 years to start finding a solution, then we are looking at 50 years out before it is fully implemented. At this time, electric vehicles are not a good fit for everyone, but for some it is a very good fit, but keep in mind that at one time, cars were not a good fit for everyone either and the horse was a better option for some. The infrastructure evolved for the car to prosper and the same will eventually be done for electricity or hydrogen etc. There are some places that EV's may never be acceptable, farming, construction, etc, but the technology is growing exponentially and it will get there rather soon.

 

I'm curious, is that a fully loaded with every accessory Crew Max? If not, that "MSRP" may include a mark up. For example, I found a TRD Pro Double Cab with a few accessories, and it was $52k but they were adding $3k to MSRP. It was in Lunar Rock too.

 

I won’t disagree with you there BUT point being the sales of EV’s are not enough to curb the use of gas any time soon. And there are many reasons why. The technology will be there but it’s simply not ready. Rushing without proper planning and troubleshooting never succeeds. It will turn more people off and then the “mandates” will start. That will lead to worse things.

And the other problem is how political this debate has become. As if we all going to die tomorrow from pollution. I love and adore nature/environment however I am also a realist. Why is there NEVER talk of what battery acid does to the environment?

 

We should absolutely be researching, testing, developing new alternatives sources of energy. I was and will never be against that…

With that said we are head jumping head first at break speed into this technology that has NOT proven to be significantly more efficient.

 

I live outside of a town of 500 on an Indian reservation. Ag community surrounded by a lot of black in the above map (lots of national forest and Wilderness). Even we have rapid charging stations. And most of the small towns on the way to to larger population centers have them. No they aren't as plentiful as gas stations but you may not be aware of how fast the infrastructure is coming along (grid concerns aside).

 

No I get it, but is it like that around the areas that have no significant towns (no offense to anyone)? I understand why you took grid concerns out of the equation for a moment. But that is the largest issue facing this technology.

 

At the same time, more and more people are putting solar on their houses, buying more efficient appliances etc. Also our infrastructure should be growing at the same time as the electric vehicles are developing. We had to build refineries and pipelines and gas stations in order to fuel the gas engines, the same thing should be happening with improving our electrical grid.
I don't believe this should be an all or none situation either. Some companies and states are saying no ICE engines after a certain date, I'm not sure if that will work 100% or not at this point, but I do believe in the development of the technology. An electric truck would not work 100% for me right now since we use it for towing and long trips, but for my wife's car, it would be perfect, she only uses it to drive back and forth from work about 70 miles a day, it never gets taken on trips. If we can start replacing 40% of the cars on the road with electric, it will make a big difference. For most families, the second car would be a perfect fit for electric. Personally, I hope they come out with a Tundra prime in the next 4-5 years which would be a perfect fit for me. Electric for 90% of my day to day driving and gas for when I am traveling or towing.

 

I don't mind gas not disappearing immediately. Not in a single one of these posts have I said gas needs to disappear. I'm planning on owning my 2022 Tundra indefinitely, and I have a Chevy SS I plan on owning forever too. Will I probably have an EV eventually too? Yes. I'm not saying we all need to run out and buy electric cars and send our ICE cars to the crusher to be recycled into Chevy Bolts.

Here's what I am asking anyone reading this: don't be cynical. That's it. I hate cynicism. I get that it's easy to be cynical about all this. I recently got a quote for solar panels for my house. The salesperson at LG told me the payback period was 18 years, the warranty was 20, and didn't even want to give me quotes for the battery system because they were that bad. (Keep in mind the KWH rate in Florida is super low). The salesperson and I laughed a little about how ridiculous it was, I wished her good luck and told her I'd call her in 5 years when the technology is better.

I get that the economics of a lot of this don't make sense AT THIS TIME. All I'm saying is give it time, don't be cynical, don't go into it with preconceived notions, and be open to change.

 

I actually agree with everything you are saying.

And I definitely don’t see it as an all or nothing. The powers that be (not government) are using that approach that this is the end all technology. When a Hybrid is much better. And what about other technologies that we don’t know of or aren’t mainstream?

A Hybrid can literally produce its own energy from driving, imagine if they could step that up a little more? Generally speaking a Hybrid significantly increase gas mileage therefore causing drivers to consume much less gas. In the meantime they should be perfecting EV technology and finding ways to adapt the Hybrid technology, such as better self sustainability.

Toyota, the largest auto manufacturer in the world, is not jumping into EV’s headfirst…why? Old school Japanese culture thinking…I don’t buy that for a second.

I knew quite a few guys that owned Toyota Hybrid Prius. On average their commute was 130 miles daily. And usually they consumed less than 7 gallons a week.

 

Where do you plug in your EV in a Brooklyn neighborhood when you have to hustle to get a spot on the street? EVs are great for the rich and those with property that have dedicated parking. Outside of that...meh...hybrid will have to suffice.

 

If you think we have infrastructure problems with Electric, think about how hard it would be for hydrogen. I think that's why the EPA has been pushing electric for over 15 years.

(If you remember, GM had developed a 4.5 liter Diesel for half ton trucks. The factory had been built in upstate New York, and the engines were ready to roll of the line. The project was killed when they had to go to the Feds for the bailout. The Feds killed this project in favor of electrification. This was pre-3.0 duramax. It's also how the 5.0 Cummins ended up in the Nissan. That was originally intended for Ram.)

I was talking to someone I know that works for BMW corporate. He said the deal behind the Supra/Z4 had nothing to do with producing a sportscar. It why BMW was willing to produce the car for Toyota, and some deal was made for BMW gaining access to Toyota IP. I don't know if that means the IP for the Hydrogen or IP for Hybrids. I would have to assume that it's IP for Hydrogen since BMW Hybrids are fairly good. Credit to Toyota though, they said years ago that they would have a hybrid version of every single model they offer in the US. The followed through.

 

Where there's a will, there's a way. Plug it in at Whole Foods while you're there buying your quinoa. This is why I think range needs to be extended though. It's impossible for people living like that to do it easily. However, if you could recharge it and have 500 mile range while you're in a grocery store, I think you'd have people switching.

 

Agreed, I understand that electric vehicles aren't there yet, but what I don't understand is some people's negativity towards them. If it doesn't work for you, don't get it. But in the coming years, it is probably going to get to where it does work for the majority of people. People don't like change, but sometimes change is good. Electric is able to produce so much better power, the only negatives right now are range and recharge times, but that is improving every single day. If feels like some of you have been brainwashed by the oil companies that oil is the only way and everything else is evil.

 

Problem is that there is not will...it's being forced on people. Who can afford a long term vehicle that has a 6% range reduction year over year and miles per charge goes out the window with heat and air conditioning? There are so many shortcomings you don't address because you can't address them. The technology cannot support the dreamy mandates. For now it's a rich man's car. The poor can afford them when the batteries are depleted.

 

It's actually 1-2% per year. So a 10 year old car still has good battery life. I also know 2 people that have Prius that are around 10 years old and they have not seen any decrease in battery life yet. A gas engine loses range with the AC on. No one has forced you to buy an electric vehicle. There will still be ICE vehicles for you to buy for the next 30+ years, they are forcing the car manufactures to up their game on their emissions and efficiency. Technology is very rapidly changing and is currently in a position that would work for many people. Like has been said many times, an electric vehicle is not for everyone or every case, but for many people they are a perfect fit. There are just as many negatives to the ICE as their is for electric.
Electric range is on par with most gas engines
Charging times have drastically been cut and continue to lower
Unbelievable power numbers
No oil changes
Give it another 5 years and they will be there. Especially now that we have several major manufacturers that are going in on the research.

 

Every 5 years they say wait 5 years...so far they have been 100% wrong.

 

Look at how much EV vehicle tech and capability has changed in the last 5 years. We are light years ahead of where we were 5 years ago. If things keep advancing at this pace, they will be very viable to most people within 5 years.

 

What changed?

Please be specific.

 

https://www.iea.org/reports/global-...-and-developments-in-electric-vehicle-markets

The average driving range of new BEVs has been steadily increasing. In 2020, the weighted average range for a new battery electric car was about 350 kilometres (km), up from 200 km in 2015.
So average range has increased by 75%

Charge times are coming down. New batteries are being developed that are able to be charged in 15 minutes.

Pick up trucks are being developed that have 1000 hp and 1000 ft of torque.

Delivery trucks and even Semis are being developed that are capable of traveling 3-500 miles on a charge.

If you don't think EV technology has changed in the past 5 years, you have been living under a rock.

 

Why are you so insulting to everyone? I'm out. You believe what you want. The facts are we are not ready for an EV revolution either technologically or infrastructure. Even Toyota warned against rapid adoption of EV.