The famous brake question!

Looking for some help on what to do. I replaced my rotors, front pads and brake fluid not very long ago maybe 15k miles. I went with OEM rotors and the top of the line ceramic pads from AutoZone. My rotors will cause my steering wheel to shake when they get hot. Something new I have noticed is when I'm stopping hard my pedal seems to pulse? I guess that's the best explanation, it makes like a winding sound and slips. My brakes have never seemed to be the best since I've had the truck compared to other vehicles I've had. So ya'll know I am really hard on brakes, comes with the heavy foot I have.

So with this being said I'm looking for a major upgrade from factory. I do tow more often then most. The heavy trailers I pull have trailer brakes on them. I'm willing to spend a good amount of money to make this truck brake like a newer vehicle. Hoping to get this done right the first time and learn from others experience. I'm really interested in swapping to Sequoia brakes in the rear. I would much rather change pads on rotors then drums. What all would I need to get this done. I also read that some people change their master cylinder to the Sequoia's. Why is that?

This is kind of what I was looking at Power Stop Z36 Truck & Tow Brake Kits. This is the part numbers I found:
KC2324-36 (Front Rotor, Pads and calipers)
KC2405-36 (Rear Rotor, Pads and calipers for Sequoia)
B850 (Rear parking brake pads for Sequoia)

I'm not in anyway stuck on Power Stop, just seems like a popular option. I have never had drilled or slotted rotors. Also wanting to change brake lines to braided. Any suggestions?

Lastly off topic of brakes. I'm wanting to order a Hellwig rear sway bar. Is it worth it to change the front one and are the longer sway bar ends for the front? I don't like the angle my swaybar is on since I lifted the front with the adjustable Bilstein stuts and shims.

Any help is really appreciated!

 

Does your E brake work properly? have you inspected the rears? Rear pad condition? Any fluid showing on rear cylinders, if you peel back the outer cylinder seals on the rears is it wet or dry? Is your star adjuster maxed? Or frozen?

Your pulsing, pedal is your abs system engaging. Why are your wheels stopping at different speeds? Sounds more like needing care and maintenance than an entire brake system swap/build.

 

What is your unloaded ride height? Have you modified rear suspension for your load carrying? how much sag do you get in rear when trailering? Is your LSV not registering your load ? are you getting no rear brake contribution leading to premature warping in front at 15k? front stopping rear not stopping causing abs to engage? I would want to know these things before redisigning the entire rear braking system.

 

I agree with that ^
Its surprising how much the front brakes struggle if the rears are not doing their job. Check them out carefully before doing anything else. When the fronts do too much work they get hot and can't cool off, then the pads start messing up the rotors either by leaving material behind or transferring heat unevenly.

As far as drilled and slotted, no benefit in my opinion on a truck. Not even for cooling sake. Stainless brake lines I also have, and saw no improvement from.

The last time I bought rotors I spent a bit extra for cryo treated ones and adjusted my drums. I was frustrated from having the same wobbly steering wheel. They have been on my truck for years now and no wobble at all.

 

Now that you mention it my Ebrake doesn't seem to be holding as good as it should. I engaged it and put it in reverse to check my new reverse lights and it wanted to roll some. I have not checked the rear brakes thoroughly yet. Will do when I get some days off.

 

I don't recall my ride height. Will have to pull measurements again. Should I pull from center of wheel? I did install 1" blocks in the rear to level the truck and Firestone airbags in the back. I did these pretty recent I'd say within 3,000 miles. With this being said I have not towed anything heavy since I installed the bags. My truck has 97k on it.

 

LSPV senses sag and increases fluid to rear brakes. If you aren't engaging that valve you are not rear braking to spec. If you raise the rear you reduce rear braking contribution. The ebrake adjusts the star wheel, if your ebrake doesn't clamp you to a stop, it is a sign to look further inside the drum. If your abs engages in normal driving conditions, your wheels are stopping at different speeds. I would want to know why, and correct it, before becoming a engineer and going down the rear disc rabbit hole. Once you verify that the rears are functioning properly, then you have to figure out how to adjust for your blocks/bags.

so if your ebrake doesn't work thats a signal that things are out of whack, when abs engages outside, gravel/ice/ hard emergency thats a signal its out of whack. when you add blocks and bags, you reduce pressure on the LSPV, adding heat and strain to the front rotors, when you have all the above and add a heavy trailer, you may just eat front rotors at low mileage.

 

For brake lines, SS woven /Teflon are the best. They won't expand over time like OEM stuff.
You'll find a nice increase in sensitivity and brake performance with those above any rotor / pad change.
For pads, Ceramics are best for truck usage. The Bosch stuff uses ceramic without copper addition, using a proprietary alloy mixture.
Rotors? again for trucks, stay away from SS material as it is real temp sensitive.
Cast iron is best and you don't need slots or holes.

 

A lot of drum e-brakes are directional and don't work that well in reverse.

 

You've gotten good advice regarding where to start on your brakes so I'll field your sway bar questions. Yes, it's definitely worth it to upgrade the front sway bar since you say you tow often. And yes, longer front sway bar links are available for our trucks. I used these https://suspensionmaxx.com/product/SMX-122270T and these https://overlandcustomdesign.com/products/forged-ball-joint-sway-bar-links?variant=37312879657126 are also available. Either one will do a better job than stock links on a lifted/leveled truck.

I replaced the stock sway bar with a Hellwig and it firmed up the front nicely. A very noticeable improvement over stock, both everyday driving and towing. I later added an Addco rear sway bar and now body roll doesn't exist on my truck. While it's a bit of overkill, I'm happy with the results. I often have my tires howling in turns just because.

Sway bar install/comparison
https://www.tundras.com/threads/wha...t-gen-tundra-today.2558/page-798#post-2003567

 

Yes, tighten up the rear brake adjustment. That should help a lot.

The stock rotors on 2003-2006 were pretty decent. I would try one of these pads:

BENDIX MKD976FM Fleet Metlok; Semi-Metallic
CENTRIC 30609760 Fleet Performance Pads

I've used the Centric on Tundra before with good results. The Bendix on other truck applications have been good as well.

 

Agree with everything that has been said. Get the rears working first. Also take a look at the LSPV https://www.tundras.com/threads/better-braking-brakes-easy.33217/

 

I agree with what you've said other than the ABS part. If the rotors are warped then you'll feel a pulsing in the brake pedal. The worse they get the more it will pulse. I don't think this is ABS related as it only does it as the rotors warm up. As the caliper pistons move slightly in and out due to warped rotors it will pulsate the pedal.

 

Cryo treated rotors. I did that to mine due to the wobble when braking and haven't looked back.

 

Wow there was a lot of good information in this post. Will be checking out my rear brake system next week since I'll have a few days off. I will be sure to update ya'll with any findings.

 

Its obvious that I need to change my rotors or maybe see about getting mine turned for now. What brand of Cryo treated rotors did ya'll use? Should I use the ceramic pads with them I already have? I figured I could get AutoZone to warranty them out to have fresh pads.

 

Thanks. I ordered Hellwig for the front and rear. HEL-7697 (Front) and HEL-7700 (Rear) Decided to go with the links from Overland Custom Design. Will take pictures when I get them in.

 

One other thought, and I'm opening a can of worms here. Ceramic pads are a less aggressive them metal meaning there's not as much initial stopping power. I use metallic pads because the brakes on these trucks are pretty weak anyway. The metal is harder on rotors, but our rotors are so easy and cheap to replace that it's worth it to me.

(Full disclosure, there is also a big debate about which type is harder on rotors and one school of thought is that ceramic doesn't conduct heat away from the rotor so the rotor gets hot and warps. The other school of thought is that ceramic doesn't get as hot so there's less heat in the first place)

 

Not true, today's ceramics are hybrids meaning they have other materials in them like copper (normally) and some very exotic alloys that do amazing things like (Bosch).
Your mindset is old school thinking. Look at like this, all high performance cars come with ceramics; cars capable of 200 mph.
They could put anything they want on a car that costs over a 100k but they choose ceramic or even carbon on the very exotics.
If you're worried about initial energy depletion, go get a a hybrid organic / ceramic design, they're designed for stop and go along with sustained high energy depletion.
Just stay with cat iron rotors.

 

And can of worms open!

 

He said he was gonna do it and he dood it.....

 

I think I got stop tech cryo's and EBC yellow pads. I didn't go drilled and or slotted. I just haul a 20' pontoon boat around vs. these other guys on here that really haul some heavy stuff. They have held up wonderfully so far. The yellows are dirty, but oh well. They stop great.

 

I agree on the warpage being the issue with pedal pulsation. I took a G.M. course on brakes when I worked at a dealership, they pretty much told us there's no need to turn rotors & drums unless there's a pedal pulsation. According to them grooves as deep as .060" are ok too. The problem I have with that is the rotors & drums don't have the amount of meat on them compared to old cars, you could put 3 sets of pads on them before the rotors were too thin to turn.
Since nobody addressed the question about the master cylinder, when you swap out drums for discs, the M/C for the drums has a residual check valve to keep the rear shoes from retracting too far, which will cause the rear brakes not to apply unless you pump them to push the shoes against the drums. If you use a drum brake m/c on discs it won't allow the pistons to retract, causing drag.
Drums in the rear will usually allow you to back up with the e-brake applied, but when you try to go forward they'll energize the leading shoe, then the trailing shoe, it causes a cam lock function that gives them their stopping power. Check all the rear brake hardware for worn adjusters or springs, those are things very few techs will change unless there's obvious damage.
I worked on tons of VW air cooled cars at my shop, the brakes are all manual adjust, with adjusters that routinely. freeze up. That's why almost every one that came in that someone else worked on would require a quick 2-3 pumps before you got any braking.

 

Cupped tires can cause pulsing while breaking.

I stick with stock on all my Toyotas. I’m at 320k and my truck has the same front brakes on it as when I got it at 207k. Next set will be all OEM.

I did Power Stop on my 05’ Cummins and one of the calipers leaked out of the box. They swapped it quickly, and I thought the pads gripped pretty well. I personally won’t use them again, but my brother in law put full Power Stop on his 17’ highlander and he said it made a huge difference.

 

Cupped tires usually cause shake in the steering, not pulsation at the brake pedal
If your front tires are cupping you need new shocks/struts before you put new tires on.