Controversial opinion: The Tundra and Tacoma are kinda flimsy

That's the rub. I can't buy a single truck that fits my needs as well as I would like. Either they are too big, too pavement-oriented, too unreliable, or too old. Sometimes a combination of the above.

So I have two. A Hilux from the 80s when they were sold here, and a Tundra. The Hilux carries and tows heavy loads slowly through difficult terrain. It's often the only vehicle that can make it in and out in wintertime. It can take chains on all 4 wheels and churn through 18 inches of packed, drifted snow without fear. But it never tows on the highway and it's old enough I don't take it on long trips.

The Tundra is my fair-weather friend. It tows loads on nice roads that would not be safe with the Hilux. It goes on longer trips. That's why I got it and it does these jobs very well.

A 2010s era Hilux or LC70 seems to combine the ruggedness of the Hilux with a modern braking system and more modern engines. Instead of two vehicles, I could have one. But no. There are importers, but importing newer vehicles is very difficult and expensive, and once they are here parts and dealer support is a never-ending challenge. So I'm sad and whiny about it.

 

I saw those up close and personal in Bolivia. Kind of like a Tundra, but 20-70% more epic in every way.

Speaking of Bolivia, IIRC they get all the Toyota trucks. If you only need to go on paved roads to move groceries and the occasional large piece of furniture or trailer, you can get a Tundra or Tacoma as you please. If you want to move demanding things to and from difficult places, there are Hiluxes and Land Cruisers too. I would love to see the LC70 and Hilux added to the USA market. I don't think it's going to happen, but it would still be great for me.

 

That's certainty a conundrum you've described, everyone's needs are different and unique. I hope you find the truck that suits your needs, let us know what you come up with.

 

I think the best I can do is 2 trucks that cover my needs between them. Fortunately one of them is almost free to own at this point

 

You get what you get, and you don’t throw a fit…lol…
After seeing what the Top Gear crew did to the Hilux they had, much respect.
Trying to find the perfect pickup is like trying to find the perfect woman…ain’t gonna happen…lol…
Like everything in this world nowadays, there is planned obsolescence. If every truck was built like an old school Toyota, there would be no need to buy new trucks. Stuff breaks, parts wear out & manufacturers don’t care much about keeping their old stuff on the road, due to the $50-$100k pickup sitting in the showroom they have to sell. I’m sure now more than ever they are freaking out due to the chip shortage and lack of new vehicles on their lots….
Plus Americans have turned the pickup truck into more of a status symbol than the workhorse they were built to be. Most pickups bought today by the average consumer probably haul more couches and sporting equipment than hay bales and building supplies. And people are more worried about heated seats and steering wheels and WiFi over the frame and suspension capabilities. Why do you think Ford made the Maverick? A truck for urban makers….

 

Two significant faults of mine are that I always want to be clever or funny, and I don't always measure people first. It's good to get checked on that at least every once in a while. It's fun to have conversation at all, more fun to have friendly disagreement, and more fun to inject sarcasm; but I turn that bus a little too quickly sometimes. @OldHilux, havagoodn.

 

I would love to own one of those. Sadly, the parts for the 1KZ-TE engine are hard to come by in the USA. Also, it's a Prado, which IIRC weren't quite as heavy duty as the LC.

 

@OldHilux what loads are you hauling? And where do you need to haul heavy loads on narrow roads with tight turns? It sounds like you’re describing Southeast Asia, not somewhere in the US. Genuinely curious.

I think an HD midsize truck would be awesome, but not only does Toyota not make that for the American market; neither does anyone else. I’m not sure why you can’t make the Tundra work. If it’s just you in the truck, and if you don’t have a ton of options like a 38gal tank, sunroof, ect, you’re probably good for 1500lb in the bed easily. You could put more weight than the Hilux is rated for in a small trailer and pull it with the Tundra. The Hilux’s turning radius is 19.3ft. The Tundra’s is only 22ft. Pretty nimble for a full size.

 

Mostly I haul firewood and steel for building stuff. Central WY has a lot of narrow back roads in the mountains. The ones I use for firewood are barely wide enough for a full size vehicle and manuvering is a pain. Meanwhile the Hilux squeezes through anywhere, carries everything I can put in its (small) bed, and pulls like a mule. But it's not safe to tow a heavy trailer at highway speeds. The 36 year old braking technology and 96hp engine just aren't quite enough for 2k+ lbs.

There's also my driveway. I have one hairpin turn that is tight. My Tundra can barely make it. The F250 I used to drive for work had to do a minimum 3-point turn to get around it. And, in the wintertime, I have to deal with snow. My snowplow is wide enough to clear a comfortable path for the Hilux in one pass. A half-ton can fit with literally 3 inches on each side. You have to be a really, really good driver to squeeze a half-ton through. A 3/4 ton would be an enormous hassle.

The flex in the Tundra frame also scares me when I'm off pavement. I drive up my driveway at 5mph and it seems like the bed is flexing a little at every bump. I'd honestly be scared to put 1500 lbs on it

So my dream vehicle is a pickup a little smaller than a Tundra, carries 2k+ lbs, and tows 5k+ or even 10k lbs, plus is as rugged as a 3/4 ton. This is a very tall order, but a number of vehicles come closer than anything we have in the US:

VW Amarok
Modern Toyota Hilux
Mitsubishi L200
Mahindra Pik Up (yes, that's what it's called)

Of these, I would much prefer the Toyota. I know Ford sells the Ranger here but I need to be able to fix my vehicles and I've never met a Ford that was easy to fix. Some Fords are great and some are terrible, but every time I try to work on one it seems like their engineers wanted to make me suffer.

Oh, and to top it all off I do take some longer trips so driving a vehicle under 15 years old is a big plus. So when squeezing through tight places or extreme off-roading are important, I take more small loads with the Hilux. When power, newness, or towing capacity are more important, I use the Tundra.

 

I hear you on the Fords. I don't trust them, and I really, really don't want to work on them. Getting under my Tundra is like looking at a work of art. Everything is perfectly placed, drains and fills are where you want them, there is a ton of room to work, etc.

I'm overweight a bit on our adventure trips. I've made peace with it. Now, I'm not advocating for you overloading your Tundra, but I never had anything less than full confidence in how mine handled and responded. Went on a 3500 mile trip to SW CO this summer. I got curious, and the CAT scale at the truck stop in KS was only charging $12. Overweight. 7400 lb with a full tank and everyone in the truck. You'd never know it though. We crawled right up Imogene Pass from Ouray to Telluride in heavy rain and hail. My big fat girl never lost her footing, never slipped at all. I have a lot of pinstripes from driving service roads searching for a place to pitch our tent on that trip. I would never have known from the way it handled, braked, or accelerated that I was anywhere near GVWR, let alone over it. As a matter of fact, I've decided to stop worrying about payload. I'm fine with being a bit over on our trips. And I know I've put more weight than that in the back coming from HD or a nursery with a load of stuff for my property. Several people are WAY over payload with all the stuff they've bolted to their Tundras. The truck just shrugs and keeps going.

I can see the bed subtly bouncing in the side mirrors as I drive down the interstate, even if I can't feel it. Frame flex has never been an issue for me. I was worried about it early on, but I've just forgotten about it.

Whether any of us agree or not, the Tundra is generally understood as a truck that is comfortable being pushed past its stated limits. Like I mentioned before, there's at least one out there that is at least 1000 lbs over it's GAWR. It just keeps going.

Just don't add multiple hay bales to the equation. There's a thread somewhere on the forum where someone messed their truck up pretty good...

 

There are Fords out there that can perform and keep doing it. Sadly it hasn't been been done in a long time. Like all vehicles there has been compromise on everything. This is my daily driver, real steel.

 

How scary do you think 1500 lbs in the bed of an aluminum F150 that weighs about 1500 lbs less than the Tundra would be?

 

Honestly, I don't know. All The F150s I've ever driven were made before the aluminum invasion. Many were okay, some seemed like the body and frame were kinda flimsy.

To be clear, my complaint about lack of frame and body strength isn't just limited to the Tundra. Pretty much all "half-ton" trucks seem to be less rugged relative to their size than the domestic HD trucks or some of the global full size (midsize for the US) vehicles

 

There was one of those on my grandfather's farm. A 67 f250 highboy if I remember. I never saw it myself but I'm told they loved that truck and every Ford after it was just a little worse than the last

 

1) I don't disagree with your unpopular opinion. I know it is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison, but that doesn't make it wrong. Compared to hilux or LC, our current Taco and Tundra are on the light side of duty. That doesn't make current Toyota offerings bad at all. Think of it this way, if you were on Gilligan's Island would you be happy banging Mary-Ann? Yes, you would. If you banged Ginger, would you stay with Mary-Ann and be just as happy? Probably not.

2) I too love a truck that is... a truck. A super durable vehicle that you can drive off a 3 foot drop and laugh when there was no damage done. Much like the Toyota pickups of the 80s, they rode like a light truck with heavy suspension. I've been saying since 2009 that Toyota should bring back the small over-built utility truck to the States. Unfortunately in the USA, maybe 80% of truck owners like trucks as daily commuters and maybe throw a bag of mulch in the back for the wife once a year. They don't need to be bomb proof, and a lot of those same people will sell them before clearing 100k miles. To anybody who this description matches, don't be offended, that's okay, you aren't alone.

 

After reading through 3 pages, I get what you're saying. You're more bashing the automotive industry than Toyota. Most people here don't face the conditions that you do. But, IMO, there's not enough market for that.

I bought my Tundra primarily for beach driving and surf fishing. It's arguably the best sand vehicle I've ever owned. There are some mountain trails that my Trooper could make that the Tundra can't. It would be nice to also own a 45 mpg vehicle for a DD, but two vehicles is not for me.

Ideally I would want a full sized pick up that gets 45 mpg and never breaks. But I know I'm not going to get that unicorn.

Plus you have a Hilux. How cool is that?

 

When it comes right down to it , in1950's and 60's, cars were built so strong they were used for pulling car haulers loaded with race cars and tons of other stuff. I've seen them pulling hay wagons loaded , and trailers with tractors. And none had AIR or WIFI , AND A FEW HAD HEAT.

 

This is true. My F-250 is built like a tank. Weighs 1,000 lbs more than my Tundra. I drive some curvy bumpy roads a lot and it doesn’t bounce and shake like the Tundra. That should be no surprise comparing a 1/2 ton to a 3/4 ton HD truck. The Tundra is a great light-duty truck, expecting it to perform like an HD truck is not a good comparison.

(Before anyone chimes in, it hasn’t left me stranded yet…)