Controversial opinion: The Tundra and Tacoma are kinda flimsy

My controversial opinion: If you experience a 70 series Land Cruiser or a diesel-powered Hilux, the Tundra and Tacoma will seem cheaply built and flimsy by comparison. I mean c'mon Toyota what were you thinking with the Tundra frame? and no full-floating axle? Really???

Maybe with the advent of TNGA it will improve the failings of the current Tundra. Or maybe it will turn even the non-US land cruisers into bloated grocery haulers.

/grumpyrant

 

I don't think it's controversial at all, the land cruiser is explicitly built to be heavy duty and have a 25 (iirc) year service life. It's the Toyota of all Toyota's, the Tundra and every other non-Land Cruiser based vehicle is subpar by comparison. Wouldn't be a land cruiser if it wasn't built like a brick shithouse, which doesn't mean the tundra is bad, just means it's not a land cruiser.

 

Seems like apples to oranges, but I get your point. How has your 2012 treated you?

 

You make a great point: Expecting the Tundra and Tacoma to be something they are not. Toyota focused on a particular segment of the consuming public with these models, and very successfully I might add. They are obviously meeting some peoples expectations of them.

 

I got to tour the land cruiser heritage museum in salt lake city a few years ago, very cool place and lots of cool and interesting history. Do recommend it if you're in the area, I thought I knew about land cruisers and went there and realized I didn't know shit. There's more types of land cruisers being produced than there are total models offered in the US, so many cool derivates, shame all we got was a max luxury 200 and not the trucks and diesel's and solid axles.

 

Eh, too early to tell. I've had it for about 1 month and 1k miles and I'm still chasing issues. Like the aftermarket turn signal bulb that nearly caught fire. Or the AC that _still_ doesn't work. Or the cruise control issue, if it is one. Or the radar sensors that some ignorant human ripped out of the rear bumper and left to dangle. Or now the mysterious VSC light.

A lot of these issues might be my shortcomings and not necessarily the Tundra's. 2012 is an unimaginably new vehicle for me and I'm still getting up to speed on what systems exist, let alone what might be wrong with them. The 5.7 is a sweet engine, pulls like a mule. But it seems utterly ridiculous that my tundra has only 280 lbs more payload and way more frame flex than my ancient Hilux

 

This is exactly my point. The Tundra and Tacoma are very well targeted, excellent trucks

...for people who don't work their trucks very hard. That's a large demographic and Toyota was smart to target it. But I and a lot of others feel left out in the cold.

 

Understood. Toyota is obviously willing to give up that segment to competitors.

 

The LC70 has 2,717 lbs of payload in a mid-level trim package. Optional locking rear differential. Live axle front suspension. Things that hard-working pickups really do need at times.

 

Toyota has never been in the heavy duty truck industry. Reliable and cost effective is there way. Sure they could make them better but at what cost. We saw today a tundra that was rear ended and more than likely totaled for frame damage. Most of the trucks on this web site at on time or another will suffer this fate. Drive it, enjoy it and remember it's covered by insurance.

 

The tundra is built for America. The land cruiser is built for 3rd world countries. The features and beef the LC gets on the other side of the globe don’t make sense to sell in the country where people just want big suvs and trucks to pickup groceries. Most of the American truck buyers want the image and that’s it.


Toyota knows they would be fighting a losing battle going up against the big 3 for the heavy duty segment. So they’ve never really bothered.

 

That being said my 05 survived rolling over at 70mph pretty damn well. Slight tweak to the frame got pulled and a new bed + fender and door. She gets used to go pickup tacomas and other projects these days… they’re still beefy by most standards

 

I traded my really nice 100 to get into the Tundra that I have now and not without a lot of tough trade offs for sure.

But in the end the thing for me was that the LC just could not do what I needed most in a truck right now,haul things that I need to haul.

So while I can not argue the reduced overbuilt persona and design of the Cruiser at all compared to the Tundra,a Tundra is still a truck that is just as well made to do its job as the Cruiser is for what it is designed to do.

If I cant get the job done for whatever reason then the truck is just not the right one for me and there are different trucks for different jobs.

I am just happy that I got to live with another Cruiser while I did!
I also have a pretty good chance that it will happen again too.

 

I think the new platform will bring Tacoma, Tundra, Hilux, Land Cruiser all closer together in some aspects since more parts will be shared. The crucial components such as frame & suspension will probably still be different. Tundra is still designed as a mostly on-road vehicle and Land Cruiser will always (I hope) be designed as an off-road capable vehicle.
I grew up in South Africa with Land Cruisers and Hilux trucks, many of them more than 1,000,000 kilometers with original drivetrain, suspension etc. They are just built to last. In the USA/Canada the requirements are not quite the same, so no need to build a heavier frame, heavier suspension, etc. that adds more cost, not to be used by the majority of the buyers. (Although there is a lot of suspension/payload talk on this site; I get that)

 

Toyota IS in the HD market; just not in the US.

If you do some traveling abroad, you’ll see that elsewhere in the world, roads are nothing like they are here. We have wide, smooth, relatively well-maintained, comfortable roads all over the US. Most other countries’ roads (if not the main highways, then the rest of them) are narrower and a LOT rougher. It makes sense to me that the HD work trucks are small and midsize elsewhere in the world.

As much as the Tundra is not built like Land Cruisers or Hiluxes, it still stands up to plenty of abuse and being pushed past its stated limits (look at how many built overlanders are over payload just sitting in the driveway).

I understand the gripe, though. I’d love a Toyota HD truck. Lots of people treat their Tundra as if it is one. Sometimes, this ends poorly (like blowing out axle bearings from overloading the bed by a LOT several times). Most of the time though, the truck just keeps going. The main thing that would make me potentially jump on the next gen is if has 500-800lb more payload.

 

This. Everywhere I've been outside of the US, what we would 3/4 ton and 1 ton pickups are just not a thing. The biggest pickup is the LC70, which has huge payload and limited towing capacity relative to the Tundra. If you need to haul a bigger load than one of those will handle, you use an actual truck, not a pickup.

 

If you think the Tundra is flimsy, you're not going to like what the big 3 are offering in the halfton segment any better...

 

That's why I bought a Tundra, not a Ford, Chevy, or Ram.

 

One thing to take into consideration..... auto manufacturers here have to meet strict mandated emission standards and increased mpg requirements that you don't see too much at all in 3rd world countries. To meet these mandates and requirements means "trade offs." 1/2 tons are a good example of these trade offs.

 

I noticed that our 4Runner isn't built like a Sequoia either. Go figure. Two different models being different an shit. Boggles the mind, doesn't it?

 

I had a extremely rare but none the less actual lemon (in my opinion) brand new Japanese built 2017 4Runner. Great truck and I would definitely buy another one if I was in the market for another SUV. The rear brakes were noisy as hell from day one and were shot by 40k. I have only needed to do rear brakes on 2 of the 8 trucks I have owned. I drive very conservatively and patiently. I had holes in the drivers seats after 45k (I only weight 176 pounds). All the door sills had be sanded/painted under warranty. The final straw was that the body have to be removed from the frame to correct rust around the rear gate and above the windshield. Nope nope and nope…I was done at that point.

But it seems that the 4Runner is the pinnacle of quality for the US market. It was a tight and tough SUV. But I feel there are some misconceptions in regards to “quality”. The alleged cheapest quality Toyota’s still wear much better, not abused, that the domestics top quality offerings.

*EDIT* Comparing the LC to a Tundra or Tacoma is not legitimate. Simply due to the price tag. A 75k base model vehicle BETTER be light years better than a fully loaded 56k vehicle (Tundra) and a fully loaded 45k vehicle (Tacoma). At minimum a 20k difference you sure as hell be getting a much better “quality” truck.

 

My first Toyota was a 1997 Land Cruiser. Out of the numerous vehicles I’ve had since 1997, the LC is the only one I kept because it’s built like a tank. OP, I can relate to your sentiments.

There’s definitely an untapped market for a vehicle that combines the best aspects of a Land Cruiser and a Tundra. A Toyota Tundra “Land Cruiser” edition, or a Land Cruiser “Tundra/Hilux” edition...

Between this forum and those on IH8MUD, the ultimate checklist could be created for a special purpose vehicle... 5.7L with SC, solid axels, full time 4WD, manual lockers, 3000lb payload, 20,000lb towing, aux trans cooler, life time warranty on frame rust, stock 33” tires with no BMC needed for 40” tires, 6’ 5” bed with the crew max, etc, etc... we can dream

 

You can thank US government, like D.O.T., EPA, etc. and automobile insurance companies. Much of what we can buy here is determined by these groups.

 

Bolded is my point. Oranges and apples.

 

So I posted an unpopular opinion over in the 2022 Tundra thread that USA Toyotas are not meant for work. Not even the Tundra. I'm moving the discussion here though, because heaven forbid that thread should get off topic. LOL.

Short summary:
We get the Tundra, Tacoma, 4Runner, and Highlander while elsewhere people get the LC70, Hilux, Fortuner, and Probox. So we started discussing whether we don't get the Hilux because we have the tacoma.

Buckle up Tacoma and Tundra fanboys, you're about to get roasted. The worst possible payload for a hilux is 1600lb. The worst possible. The best possible payload in a Hilux is 2530. Let that sink in a minute. The minimum payload for a Hilux is close to the maximum for a Tundra

Meanwhile, the Tundra has a 160-inch minimum wheelbase and the Hilux has a 145 inch wheelbase. In other words, Toyota knows the US market wants bloated and flimsy vehicles that look tough and have the latest tech. So they gave us the Tacoma and Tundra, which compared to any world market Toyota are pretty terrible.

Yes, I'm still bitter that the 2022 Tundra is a flimsy grocery getter. Come on Toyota, not even a full floating rear axle???

 

First.

Payload of a hilux if it was sold in the US would be 1000lbs.

 

I’ll second your “unpopular “ option:
Most if not all thing “made in America” turn out to be junk. Workers here tend to take very little pride in craftsmanship these days.

Do they still import Japanese 4runners or are those now cut?