Tech12Volt system: happy but still searching…

Warning, long post incoming. Achieving good sound is a delicate science and really dependent upon each individual and their tastes/needs.

First of all, count me as a satisfied JRT/Tech12Volt customer. I took advantage of a special he was running on the Infinity/Hertz/JL complete system for $1100. I already had the Kenwood DMX1057XR head unit. I got the system with the Infinity 5-channel 7005A amp, 2 JL W0 10” subs in ported box, and Hertz components front and back. I quickly upgraded from the base model Hertz (up front only) to the Hertz CK165L, speakers that deliver more midbass and have a better tweeter. I drove to him (6 hours for me) to have his crew install, and they did a great job. They even cleaned up the sloppy install of my HU at no extra charge which was originally done by an audio guy I hired off Craigslist.

When I first listened to my new system I was blown away and truly loved it, but I am sure as many of you know, that’s partly due to what I was coming from… the awful JBL Tundra system. As I have settled in and gotten more “picky” I have noticed that I am feeling some voids in my sound. This is not a knock on Tech12Volt, they offered a great system at that price point. You can’t expect perfection at that price. The first thing is that I feel I am really missing my original center dash speaker. When you listen to music at a high volume you can feel that gap there. I think the sound would be more filled out if I had something going on there. All 3 dash speakers were disconnected per the recommendation of the JRT crew, as they “compete” with the new sail panel tweeters and muddy up the sound. I also feel that my midbass is lacking a little it. It’s not horrible, but I expected more when I upgraded from the K165 to the CK165L in the front. When I listen to most songs I feel that I have great highs and great lows but I don’t feel enough “warm sounds” in the midrange. I am wondering if any experts here can help me confirm or deny any of my ideas. The first idea is that my amp may be too basic to give me anything more than what I am getting. Maybe a legit amp like a JL or Arc that puts out 1100 total watts instead of 700 might make all the difference. Also, I’m wondering if I disconnected the sail panel tweeters on my front Hertz components and ran something like the Audiofrog GS25 in my dash corners (which get great reviews) for my highs, and ran those directly off my Kenwood HU. I continue to seek warmer sounds and I hear the GS25 are lovely. From what I understand, aftermarket HU’s have the power to run smaller speakers. Currently all of my speakers are being pushed by my 5-ch amp, but this may be a way to maximize production. If my HU could run some dash speakers (plus the center speaker) then I feel like I could fill my missing elements.

Sorry for the long post. Hoping some audio guru can help point me in the right direction. Thanks.

 

Gs25 in the dash corners would be my vote. They sound amazing. I'm running audiofrogs in a 3way active setup.
I've read people using the gs25 as a mid-tweeter. You will loose the very top highs, but I have mine crossed over to 3500, they are a very versatile speaker.

Big next step would be dsp plus an 8ch Amp with 3 way active up front and passive in the rear.... and a mono Amp for the subs. With the right tune, it will sound amazing.

 

Ditch the dash speakers and run your 2-way door components..
I'm running Focal PS165FX in my front doors (100w RMS with an Alpine PDX V9) with the dash speakers disconnected and it sounds phenomenal..

If you have an after market HU, a decent amp, and decent front door 2-way components, there is no need to dash speakers bouncing off the windshield..

The dash speakers just muck up the door components, I guess unless you are running 3 way components.

Of course, YMMV.

Good luck..

 

I already have the dash speakers disconnected and I’m running some nice Hertz CK165L 2-way components up front. The sound is loud and clear but I feel like I am missing some mids and/or “warmer sounds” and I can also hear the gap in the sound due to the disconnected center speaker. That’s why I had the idea to disconnect the tweeter in my sail panel and replace the dash corners with something much better like the Audiofrog GS25 and also reconnect (replace with something better) my center speaker. From what I have read, the dash speakers can be run off my HU, and I could keep the rest of the wiring as is. Or maybe if I upgraded my 5 channel amp to something more robust I would be feeling my mids more? Not sure what the answer is.

 

Thanks for the response. I remember reading some of your comments before and you seem like a real audio guy. That “next big step” sounds amazing and I may do it one day, but for now I’m looking for a cheaper fix, so maybe disconnecting my sail panel tweeters and running the dash GS25’s off my HU is my ticket.

 

Don’t forget to post updates! I love my tech12volts system and I don’t think I could find a fault with it. But I am the type of person who doesn’t like having components abandoned in place.

 

What kind of Tech12Volts setup do you have?

 

Here’s the summary thread. Reminds me I need to follow up on the outcome.

https://www.tundras.com/threads/total-sound-overhaul.89285/

 

Nice. I wish he had started selling the PG packages before I purchased mine. JRT is careful about what he says because he doesn’t want to trash any of the products he sells but he pretty much implied that the PG amps, components, AND subs blow away all the other stuff at similar price points. I have considered (and still am) swapping out my Infinity 7005A for the equivalent PG amp (probably what you have). I think it would make my subs and door components all sound better.

 

The problem with that is there is no way to change the volume or fade the dash tweeters run off the HU compared to your amped front channels.
Perhaps your HU has a setting that will do that, IDK.

I felt I might have been missing something as well.
I bought James' Kenwood mids for the side dash and his twin JL Audio tweeter center and ran it off the Kenwood HU.
It was too IN YOUR FACE compared to the smoothness of the amped Focal door components.
There was no way to turn it down or dial it back other than the main volume.
If there had been a way to fade them down independent of the other amped front door speakers, it might have worked.
Not fault of James or his product, it just didn't work with what I already had.
I sold them to someone on the forum and they were happy with them.

 

Good to know. The more research I do the more it seems like the only way to achieve perfect sound is to go the full 8-Ch plus mono amp with DSP route suggested by @Danimal86. I would hope that my new technology Kenwood HU would have to ability to tune individual speakers but I just haven’t messed with it much. It appears to have some pretty advanced settings. As many have described, if you are even slightly a perfectionist when it comes to audio, this rabbit hole is deep and dark

 

And expensive.

Have you looked at AudioFrog G60S component setup? I ran them in a passive setup and was really happy with them. The tweeter has a really warm sound, not harsh/sharp like the JL C5-650's that i was running before. I ended up ditching the passive crossovers and added the gs25 and going full active.

 

I have a bigger amp that runs everything...If I had to do it over again would have got sep amp for subs and one I could run the front stage off of. I added tech12 dash set up and am very happy even leaving all the door speakers. I got four JL tweeters on the dash including his two speaker center and it sounds great. I have a similar headhunit.

 

Im in the same boat as OP. Its my understanding "experts" have laptops, software and microphones that can fix all of your concerns (and mine) so I am currently searching for such a shop here in north atlanta.

If anyone else lives up here and has recommendations feel free to shout it out but Im thinking cartunes? which has been around forever.

Good luck OP! and Ill let you know how I make out in my audio perfection quest.

 

I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I read a bunch of stuff on this forum and read more on the interweb about amp gains and crossovers and equalization. From there I downloaded some test tunes and tuned my system myself. It could sound like crap to some folks, but to my ears it sounds as nice as I could expect. I have been extremely pleased. I have heard many, many times that the primary listener’s ears are the most important. I have had many other systems “tuned” by “experts”, and I can say I’ve never been as happy as this system tuned by my amateur self. This is the first time I actually took the time and effort to do this. I am glad I did.
For reference my system is: 2017 Tundra Platinum Stock JBL HU, GROM VLine VL2, DSR1, JL Audio MHD-900/5 (got a good deal that’s why I have marine version), AudioFrog GS25, 2 AudioFrog G60S, 2 JL Audio CP108LG-W3v3

 

Its a tough call where to tweak the system. I too felt it was a bit bright and the stage was about chest high when I first installed. In talking with James I made a couple of tweaks that helped to warm up the sound stage and bring it up. The 2 things that made the difference for me was adding the side dash speakers full range mid/high (no center) and then adjusted the timing in the DSR. It gave me what I wanted without adding a lot more $$ for high dollar components.

I think when you figure out/understand what you feel is missing you'll be able to address it. Key is to change 1 thing at a time, use it for a while, then make the next change.

Even the @redrum448 post is not a bad idea either, having what you have tweaked. Not sure what costs are involved, but a reputable installer should be able to help. It doesn't cost anything but a little time to talk with them and get a quote.

 

At the point that you are right now, have you set up an RTA? That would be the most accurate way of knowing what are you missing and adjust your frequencies, crossover and volume.

 

@dkrou I also have the tech12 dash set up with Hertz Center (2 dt24.3 tweeters), and Hertz side dash tweeters, also the dt24.3 tweeter. Basically 4 tweeters in the dash now! I'm reading on here that everyone is disconnecting their dash speakers, even being told by James to disconnect the dash, and until I saw your post, I was unhappy that he sells dash speakers, if he's telling folks to just disconnect them LOL. Interesting that you left all the door speakers! What amp/subs did you add? I might do the same!

 

The best I can understand it, he sells dash speakers primarily as a way to plug and play and improve the sound of the stock system. He recommends disconnecting the dash only if you go with one of his complete systems that runs off a 5 channel amp. The 5 channels power the 4 component sets plus the sub(s). So to keep (or improve) the dash speakers, you would have to run them directly off the head unit or get an amp with more channels, or multiple amps. The way he and others word it, if you run the dash speakers off the head unit, the sound is too in your face when combined with the clean highs you get from the sail panel tweeters that are part of the component set.

 

I got one of James’ packages with infinity amp and sub and Hertz doors. I upgraded the fronts because the sail tweets didn’t work with my ears (sharp and sibilant). I opted for Morel CCWR254 in the dash sides running off the head unit. May not be perfect but I think they do a great job of warming the sound while remaining clear and present at all volumes.

 

I got the JL 900 amp and the two 10inch JL subs with the box he provides....all the doors are C2 JL speakers and dash are C1 JL tweeters. He sold me the whole system so obviously I was running the dash. It sounds amazing. I asked him recently about switching out the right and left dash tweeter with Audiofrog 325's and he said that would take the sound up to another level. I didn't pull the trigger but he obviously is not anti dash speakers.

 

Looking at upgrading the 2015 DC…maybe that $1100 texh12volt package. Or maybe just order stuff and figure it out.

Are the Hertz k165 speakers much if an upgrade from stock non-JBL?

 

This sound system installation was a joy for me. Before I even started buying stuff, I learned from the YouTube’s pros and read a lot as well. Im the guy that likes to learn and do things my way, so if you want to learn go ahead and do it yourself.

This is what I installed for around 3k just in material and equipment. I did not replace the HU.

Hertz MPK 165P.3
Hertz MPX 165.3 Pro
(2) JL audio 10w1 V3- 4amps. I built my own box.
Audison 4.500 and 1.500 with VCR S1
DSR 1
Stinger deadener

$241 RKST36B Roadkill Stealth Series Sound Damping Material Bulk Pack

RKST36B (This is a must for all doors and back. I did the skin of the door and the front face)
Stinger roadkill foam

$23 RKFR6 3 Piece Foam Speaker Enhancer System Kit for 6" & 6.5" Drivers,Black

RKFR6
And a bunch of wire, connectors, ferrules, shrink tube, abs board and more.

End result: maybe is crap for a professional audiophile but this installation didn't brake the bank. My only future replacement would be the head unit.

 

That gap up front is likely time alignment caused. I ran a simar setup in my '07 before going 3-way active and I wasn't really missing much.

That Kenwood will do 90% of what an 8 channel DSP will do. I just installed a 957XR (same processor as yours) and it's allowed me to eliminate my old Alpine H-100 processor. I'm still tuning it now, but I'm happy with everything I've tried.

Here are my recommendations of steps to try. I've been a hobbyist for 25 years and running active front stages in my vehicles for 10. There are lots of people that know more than me so take this for what you paid for it. There are also some great tuning posts out there to follow if you'd like.

1. Confirm your EQ is flat, no boost, and fader is set to middle
2. Measure the distance from your head to the left tweeter and the right tweeter. Add that difference into the T/A (time alignment) setting in your HU.
3. Use that as a base and play around with it until your front "stage" sounds centered from the driver's seat.
4. Sometimes you'll need a click or 2 of L/R balance to get it sounding right.
5. Once that sounds centered, adjust your EQ to how you want it to sound.
6. The next step can be easy or a pain depending where your Hertz crossovers are mounted.
7. Download some pink noise test tones either to your phone or a USB.
8. Play the tones and note how they sound.
9. At the crossover output to your speakers, switch the polarity (+/-) on one speaker at a time and listen for the change.
10. If it sounds "better" to you leave it, if worse or no change, put it back.
11. Do this for each speaker in the front stage, 2 tweeters and 2 mids. Sometimes cabin reflections and cancelling need phase adjustments.
12. See how close this gets you to your goal.

Active front stage and another amp are the next steps but you have solid gear that should meet your needs.

 

I know this was a while back but I am Thinking of putting in the same speakers and wondered what you used to get them to fit and if all of the clearances are still working. I have a dbl cab so really just asking about the front speakers.

 

I would say that door holes are the same. Below is what I use.

Metra adapter rear

$17 82-8148 6" to 6-3/4" Speaker Adapter for Select Toyota/Lexus/Scion 1998-Up Vehicles, Black

82-8148

Speaker wire adapter

$18 72-8104 Speaker Wire Adapters for Select Toyota Vehicles - 4 Total Adapters

72-8104

Front speaker adapter 82-8147