Towing problems- No transmission cooler on 2020 TRD Pro

Yep, but I’m not blinded by Toyota and there marketing practices.

 

Ahhh....moving the goalposts.

 

I realize this is a 'heated' topic but as a new 21' Tundra owner I just want to say thanks to everyone for the discourse, informative perspectives, and links.

 

Just so you keep in mind that Toyota designed a transmission where the liquid can handle higher temps but the solids cannot.

 

Fixed it for you. Just in case you wanted to honestly represent the position you're arguing against.

You also seem to be forgetting that Toyota has seen failures due to high temps. To me, that means that yes while the fluid appears to be able to handle having a 300ºF warning light, there are examples of the transmission itself (which is an older design) apparently not handling it.

 

That's what leads me to installing a cooler. It's possibly not worth the expense for a wide user-base, but for my personal truck applications, obsessiveness with longevity, and a particular 'never-again' experience in my past with overheating a transmission (not a Toyota), I am paying the extra $ for added insurance and confidence when I'm pushing the truck in mountainous sections. I am a slow driver who will not push to max specs, but in my case I tow horses and livestock which complicates any issues occurring on the road. In transit, desicions about what is best for the truck are affected by animal-related logistics and safety concerns.

 

I don’t think Toyota ever said or will say the real reason, but some speculated the R1234yf is more environmentally friendly so it takes more surface area to reach the same cooling capacity. Since the condenser needs more surface area, they decided to remove the trans cooler. The old stand alone from 07-09 won’t fit and since the tundra was getting remodeled, there was no reason for R&D for a new cooler. The failure rate under warranty will be very low and won’t come near the amount they saved. Most don’t tow or even know the cooler is gone.

 

I reckon this is true, but I still went ahead with the cooler. I decided for my applications, as someone with an opinion of no authority on the matter beyond these threads, in this case I'd rather be wrong one way than wrong another so if anything its worth the placebo effect alone. Granted, thanks to you guys discussing this topic the cooler was a 'probably' earmarked within the mods budget I set aside before I went shopping for the truck.

 

...and the engineers that designed the 2007-2018 thought it was needed. Why, because they know damn well it was needed. Engineering shit y'all!!

 

I just want to see if I can break this thing. Wish me luck.

 

You also can’t prove the transmission can’t handle it... aside from the occasional anecdotal occurrence that may or may not have been caused by a lack of external cooler.

Newsflash: the Tundra has had transmissions that failed before 2019...

 

Installed Nicks Hayden on my 2020. Temps now stay 185-195 no tow. Towing 6k last weekend 220 miles mostly HWY didn't get over 210. Piece of mind for me. Toyota thermostat, toyota hardlines and a Hayden cooler exactly like the 2013 and before. Honestly its easier on the engine temp now because coolant isn't transfering heat and AC condensor is solely committed to its job as the new R1234 was designed . I spoke with a Toyota Engineer to make sure cooler temps that they desinged wouldn't interfere with any 2019/2020 changes in software or gearing "hunting" and got in writting it wont.BTW..r1234 was a Govt mandate so they had no choice.

No need to debate it. It's your truck.

 

Newsflash: I'm not claiming proof of anything. Just saying why I made the choice to add the cooler.

The thing about the older Tundras out there with 300k, 500k, or even higher miles is that people drove the absolute dog piss out of them, towing and hauling (often over the trucks' ratings), and not sticking closely to the recommended maintenance schedule. The trucks didn't seem to care. Why? Because they're overbuilt. It's very much like Toyota to design a transmission with an internal heat-exchanger AND an external thermostatically-controlled cooling system. That's exactly what they did. That kind of engineering is what earned them their reputation. So when they drop the external system (allegedly compensating for the move with better lockup programming), with Mike Sweers vaguely claiming, "we have stayed within our target temperature," this raises questions for me. What is the target temp now? Is it different than before? Why did this same transmission need the ext cooling system for so many years prior? Why does the warning light come on at a much higher temp than before? What is your targeted service life for the transmission? Did that change from before? I just think this situation stinks...it seems to me to be very much contrary to the Toyota way. At least one Tundra engineer agrees.

If you disagree, that's fine. I hope both our trucks last to 300k and beyond.

 

These threads will never end.

But I spoke to a friend who just bought a Chevy 2500 diesel. He said "This truck has everything! Just shut me up if you already know all this and your truck has it too. It has brake pad wear readouts, oil level, and when towing it even shows the transmission temperature! And the engine braking is awesome, I don't even need to touch the brakes." Basically the USA HD trucks are packed to the gills with towing 'features' and it shows.

Meanwhile Toyota is busy deleting anything related to towing. They target those who occasionally pick up a new lawn tractor from Home Depot or rent a small Uhaul trailer. Anyone who needs to get real work done buys an American HD truck.

 

Your trading features for reliability when purchasing a "American" HD truck.

The term "American" is an old description which really doesn't apply. The Tundra has more American content than GM, Ford or Ram.

 

Coming from an owner of a domestic 2500 HD, this is true. Tundra has more American parts than any I am pretty sure.

 

Because the Tundra is a halfton. GM only puts a 24 gallon fuel tank in their 1500s because they want to force you into a HD if you need to tow.

 

Posted this in another thread , but a guy at work traded in his Tacoma for a Seirra 2500 HD AT4 and has to get his entire transmission replaced with only 6K on the odometer, he is less than pleased.

 

Seems like the whole industry is moving away from sub-200 deg trans fluids. Even the Tacoma has gone without aux cooler.

Here is an interesting thread on 2021 F series.

Transmission cooler - Page 2 - Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans

Note the 10r80 has a oil-water cooler only.

Also the screen shot of the F 250 fan settings. Note the fan for the trans cooler doesn't even kick on until 250 and only hits full fan speed at temps above 260F.

 

TRUTH^^^

 

And then the oil level sensor fails and you are in limp mode 300 miles from home. You take it to the dealership and they start replacing all of the items in a particular circuit one by one. No thanks.

 

This is my window sticker on my 2017. Does this mean my 2017 has the transmission fluid coolers? Thank you

 

Yep, they do have more gadgets. Can be good or bad. I still would not go by exactly as they say, but you get the point.

My 2020 2500 HD with 6.6 gas and 6-speed (non Allison) runs 185-190. Pics were from yesterday when I went to the in laws for a cookout. Mostly highway, unloaded truck. It runs about 25 degrees warmer than my 2004 and 2008 Duramaxes.

 

Toyota used that 80/20 rule. 80% will not use the trucks as a work vehicle and won’t keep the Tundra longer than 2-3 years or 60k miles. 20% that do use the Tundra for real work and will keep them a long period of time will just spend an extra $600-700 for a real transmission cooler. Toyota is not stupid, they have mastered the numbers.

 

2017s with 5.7 have a cooler. They removed it in 2019.

 

This thread is total poop , but I read the entire thing

 

Towing through the mountains, 100* ambient temp, 75mph.



Trans fluid hot as balls. I don't even want to know what it looked like a couple weekends ago towing at 113*!

 

How much weight were you towing? Were you in D or S5? Those temps are hot, but most will say you were driving too fast. If I slow down and put it in S5 my temps drop quick.

 

Right around 4,000lbs. Suzuki Samurai on a 16' steel deck car hauler (dual axle). I switched between D (in tow haul) and S4 (in tow haul) and noticed no real difference in temps.