2022 Tundra

Blown equals forced induction....

 

Just don’t see a huge market share for a 700hp off road truck for Toyota to jump into. If I lived in the desert or had sand dunes nearby a TRX/Raptor would be a lot fun. An AT4/Tremor capable truck would be a much larger market share and more usable for most???

 

Well a TTv6 is more useable for the masses.
I think those trucks are
More for flagship and brand identity than market share. That being said, I do seem to see a shit ton of Raptors rolling around.

 

https://www.motor1.com/news/382108/ford-f150-sleeper-700-hp/

Somebody already has gotten 700 from a 3.5 TT with minor modification. So if Toyota overbuilds the system like they did the 5.7 it'll be easy for them to jump into that power range.

 

Runs on e85, the package is not yet released, what rpm is it cranking out those numbers, longevity?

 

For as long as we’ve been waiting all of that is disappointing. It’s as if Toyota doesn’t bother listening to customers.

 

Longevity is why I mentioned beefing up the components - sure the EB can push it out but me personally I'd be expecting a Ford product to not last long. But if Toyota engineers did the same thing they did to the 5.7 then I could easily see them having to do minor mods to the stock V6TT to push out 700. And the E85 issue is a non issue to me, manufacturers already put out engines that are rated in brochures based on 91 octane yet allow for the engine to run fine on 87 octane at lower power. All you need is that max power output from available fuel at the pumps, not power output with all different type of fuel available at the pumps.

 

These type of trucks are never for the masses, they are for brand recognition and bragging rights for their customers who by Toyota in general.
Still, throwing the wife's groceries into the back at the store then smoking the shit out of all four tires on the way out would be kinda cool.

 

Nope. My 2018 will last me for a good decade... I will see what things look like in 2030.

 

I'll be first in line to buy one and it will be on my dyno the same afternoon for real world numbers.

I sure hope it out-tows the 5.7L. I just did some software development / testing on it a few days ago. Towed about 8500lbs and it was terrible.

The truck also smelled like it was going to catch on fire after 50 miles.

on the highway was fine. Braking fine. Anywhere else was shit.

 

The 5.7 tows damn good for a half ton gasser - I'd say only the GM 6.2 out tows it from my experience (haven't towed with a 3.5 HO). Although if you're expecting it to tow somewhat like a diesel you will be disappointed. The 3.0 half ton diesels are much more confidence inspiring while towing. Gas engines just need to rev high to tow so the new engines won't be much better.

 

It does tow good, yes. I have towed several things with it.

average towing weights.. 3000, 4000, 5000 lbs... piece of cake.

But when you get near the towing limit, the truck is really struggling.


I guess I should rephrase I hope the 2022 can tow like a diesel.

I know it can't.

Setting myself up for disappointment.

 

Do any of the other half ton trucks honestly tow 8, 9, 10 thousand pounds WITHOUT struggling? I'm happy with the way mine tows 5000 ( my boat) but if I towed close to double that much, I'd get a diesel.

 

There's a reason all semi's are diesel, it's by far the superior power band for towing. A gas engine would have to be 1000 hp to tow anywhere close, and it would still want to rev like crazy. It's weird to get used to running 5k RPM's to get the response you want, but that's what gassers do - there's nothing wrong with it, it just feels weird and sucks back the fuel.

I was hoping the hybrid could make the gap smaller, but from TFL tests the hybrid doesn't show any advantages over the 3.5 or 5.0.

 

I had to tow just north of 13k for 3 hours each way at highway speeds (not planned for). The only complaint I had was that the trailer wanted to wag the truck, and I had to overcome a dangerous speed wobble for a few hundred feet. Truck had no problem hauling the weight, but truck was unsteady above 50mph.

 

In a tundra?

 

My TT is around 8k when it's loaded and ready to go. My tundra does fine, but it could 110% use more ass, especially in the hills and mountains.

I still hope the tundra HAS a diesel and yes, I'm also setting myself up for failure.

I'll drive a 2022 when it comes out and a baby duramax then decide

 

Toyota's bread and butter is Camry, Rav4, Tacoma. The rest of the US lineup has a very small market share. Toyota is scrambling to streamline production and increase market share for the Tundra and Sequoia.

The Sienna AWD has been around for years but Toyota hasn't marketed it as they should have. Ford came late to the market with an AWD Transit in hightop and LWB models and took over the market. Meanwhile Toyota built a new plant in Guanajato to produce Tacomas.

I like Toyota products, owned many, but they have a poor selection for trucks and vans in the US.

 

I suspect Toyota might sell more Siennas if they didn't cost double what minivans from Dodge and Kia do.

 

I don't know about the cost but Sienna was the only AWD van until Ford brought out the new Transit. Seems to me I would have marketed the first AWD van like crazy, would have offered it in many versions.

 

Yes sir. Only issue was trailer wanting to wag the truck above 50mph. Tires on the trailer were new and were biting the road. Had they been worn then I don’t think I’d have noticed.

 

Other than the AWD Mazda MPV.

 

I unfortunately used to work on those, very frequently. What an absolute piece of sh*t they were. The trans was the size of something comparable to a Sherman Tank, but seemed to burn out at about 30-40k. It paid 13 hrs. including removal, rebuild, and re-install. I still have nightmares thinking about them.

 

My parents got 15 years and over 100k miles out of their MPV but it was RWD. Our friends had one with AWD and a manual. Can't remember if they had issues with it but they bought one from the next generation when their daughter totaled it.

 

I’m on this boat. After 15 yrs of being in a Taco, I’m itching to get something with more power, room, and technology. I can’t wait to see the specs on the ‘22 and hope I’m not disappointed. I really want to stay loyal to Toyota, but the ball is in their court.

 

In your 07?

 

Oh I'm painfully aware of the Toyota USA priorities and best sellers. Been that way for a long time, I used to sell cars after the USMC and before the RR and worked for a Toyota store.

Times change though and the Koreans are offering good cars in all those categories except the small/medium pick up, full size pick up, and full size SUV. Other manufacturers have also drastically increased their quality and reliability in the same market segments that Toyota competes in, most of them offering a less expensive product that for the vast majority of people does the same thing for long enough. Fundamentally I don't think Toyota the Japanese company really fully understands the North American car market. First of all the real money to be made here is in 1/2 ton and larger pick ups, and fairly large (by Toyota standards) SUV's, both markets that Toyota Japan seems completely clueless about, and has to be cajoled while kicking and screaming, into offering products to compete in those markets.

They want to focus on small sedans, midsize sedans, and small CUV's, that either: no one buys (small cars), or that have virtually no profit margins (small CUV's), or both (midsize sedans).

Then they do things like the Sienna, great minivan, maybe the best money can buy or 2nd best after the Odyssey depending on your priorities; problem is minivan buyers don't care about that crap. Minivan buyers for the most part are buying a minivan because they don't have a choice, minivans for most buyers are something bought to fulfill a job at the lowest possible cost. No one aspires to own a minivan: people with big families and lots of money buy Suburbans, Expeditions, Tahoes, Sequoias, Escalades, and Navigators; the poor and middle class buy either used large SUV's previously mentioned, or hold their nose and buy a minivan. Toyota could stop producing the Sienna and the public and Toyota dealers wouldn't care. The only van market that could and should be contested is commercial vehicles. Plumbers, electricians, HVAC contractors and other tradesmen buy vans; they're literally the only people in North America who actually WANT a van.

Toyota does do well with the Tacoma, because they do well all over the world with the Hilux, and the Tacoma isn't too far off. The 1/2 tons though, I just have to shake my head. The first Tundra was OK, I sold quite a few of them but it took Toyota an eon to make a double cab. Then the double cab Tundra shows up sporting the 4.7L V8 and while it's a good engine, that truck desperately needed over 300hp. Every time I dove one all I could think about was "this truck needs to have about 100 more horsepower and about 400lb-ft for it to be perfect". The generation of Tundra I own started out great, but it didn't take long for the hyper competitive players in the segment to step up their game all while Toyota did nothing but sheet metal changes. Sorry Toyota but this is North America, not Africa where there are no other players in your truck market you can't just keep making the same stuff and entice new buyers.

 

There WERE engines with 16 cylinders and four turbos. (last one I knew of was either on a P51 or P38.

 

Back on the topic of a twin turbo V6 I really wish Toyota had not done a V6. An inline 6 on the other hand would be quite desirable. Inherent primary balance, 7 main bearing caps, generally superior torque production over the operating range, and if you throw turbos at it the hot side of the motor is hot and the cool side of the motor is cool. Oh and inline 6's sound great too, V6's generally sound like ass.

Toyota developing V6's to me makes zero sense at this point. If they are abandoning the V8 in the name of efficiency, why not oust the V6 for the same reason? Smaller vehicles with FWD layouts can easily hit power goals with a turbocharged 4 cylinder, so the Camry/Highlander/RX etc family don't need a 6 cylinder to hit the 300+hp they might want to offer. RWD vehicles can have a longer hood line and engine bay that can take a glorious inline 6 that can make V8 power no problem. Plus if we consider economies of scale, an inline family of engine blocks and cylinder heads of various cylinder count give more bang for the buck. A shared architecture I-3, I-4, and I-6 both naturally aspirated and turbocharged variants makes more sense than developing and producing both inline and vee configuration blocks, timing gear, etc.

Oh well I can wish in one hand and take a poo in the other.