Help! Sub not working [SOLVED]

I just completed a full tech12volts 'hertz' system install today, wired up my Kenwood DMX1057XR HU and Kenwood X802-5 Amp.

Amp
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_113X8025/Kenwood-Excelon-X802-5.html?tp=115

HU
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_113DMX1057/Kenwood-Excelon-Reference-DMX1057XR.html

I just about had a heart attack when I first powered up - the thing was DOA! Decided to play with the Toyota plugs and sure enough after I switched them around at least I got power. (I now have an extra OEM Toyota HU plug, no idea where it would fit. Using Maestro RR)

What works:
- Screen
- All door speakers (sound pretty thin by themselves FWIW)
- Bluetooth (didn't try calls)
- TPMS
- Gauges (likely)
- Amp (has power light on, measured voltage, has voltage at 'remote turn on' terminal - and door speakers work)

What doesn't work:
- The Sub!

The Amp is fed by three sets of RCA cables from the HU. The speaker wires between the Maestro and HU are not connected at all.

I don't get it. I have the remote volume knob in the cabin, twisting that makes no difference. I have the amp settings per James' recommendations. Went through the HU settings and there seems to be no 'Enable Sub' setting, I did see sub settings but they are for things like crossover settings and speaker size.

Any ideas? I tried with the truck in ACC/ON mode and with the truck running (in case the system wasn't getting enough juice.) No difference. Sub is a single 12" Rockford Fosgate. Has no other connections into it other than the speaker wires.

 

My Pioneer definitely has a sub on/off setting. Check your speaker level, crossover, and sub config pages if you have those. I can't help a ton on the HU itself.

On the amp, are there switches for different modes, e.g. 2-channel vs 4-channel vs 5-channel? Pics of the setup might help a bit.

 

What do you have this switch set to:

 

I have set to Sub

I unplugged the remote knob and got a little sound out of the sub. Weird.

The whole system sounds weaker than the oem at the moment. Will post my Amp settings when I get home, but they are the default settings suggested by James.

 

Pics. Amp settings per James' recommendation. DMX HU settings are bone stock.

Notes from debug tonight:
- The cabin 'knob' does indeed work, but only if I crank it to the Max
- If I remove the remote knob cable, it seems like Amp defaults to 'max' (whatever that is)
- Overall bass is still very, very muted, only about the same as OEM door speakers, not like a 250W 12" driver
- There is a high frequency hiss right after the HU boots. It's covered up when there is audio but during silent moments it's very apparent.

 

And the sub settings
(BTW, cannot increase the gain, it is disabled for some reason)

 

I think you’ve got some issues on your crossover and sub gain. I don’t know what James told you to do, but for the crossovers you want those to either match or overlap slightly. Right now your sub is at 80 hz and your full range channels are at 100, so you have a 20 hz dead zone. And your sub gain is set to 0, so that’s probably the main reason you’re getting weak response. You can crank that up a good deal, I’d say at least half way, then tune from there.

That’s just my approach though, and I’m definitely not an expert. But I’ve usually had decent luck getting okay sound out of my system.

 

Thanks TRDFerguson! I'll experiment in the morning.

Meanwhile, here are the boilerplate settings from tech12volts. (I didn't getting anything kenwood specific but did send him a pic of my amp dials and he blessed it) Note that "Bass Boost = 0dB" in both cases.




Here are the Kenwood manual descriptions for the Amp dials. "Bass Boost" sounds rather vague, says "Sets the low frequency level to be compensated." Low frequency level sure sounds like... a frequency level rather than a gain.

 

The terminology used in audio equipment is very confusing because it is so inconsistent. Every box has something different, every HU something different.

So let's look at that "Input Sensitivity" dial. I found this online for a definition:
The input sensitivity is understood as the voltage required at the input to drive the amp to max stated power.

I asked James about it and he said "Crank that up to 3/4." But there is Min on the left and Max on the right. Yet the numbers are not linear and go from Greater to Smaller! So which way should be 3/4 be viewed? He then said "Set it at 0.5." OK.

But when looking at the bolded definition I should actually be putting the dial the other way, closer to 5v. Why? Because I know my HU output pre-amp levels of about 4.75v (HU is rated at 5v but doesn't quite reach it.) Because I currently have the dial at 0.5, this means that even a teeny tiny voltage will allow the Amp to output max voltage on the speaker outputs. I'm amplifying noise - this would explain the constant hissing even in the absence of any signal.

And still doesn't explain why the Sub hardly works at all. Ugh. Will try some 1kHz and 50Hz tones through it today and measure with a multimeter to see the real speaker level output.

 

Leave the Bass Boost off. Dont touch it.
On the left side of bass boost is your Sub Gain. Look as though it is turned up (sensitivity) to 0.5v... which is definitely turned up. You "should" have sounds.
Is there a setting inside the radio itself to turn on or off the sub?

The setting on the sub look fine as far as gain and frequency to start with. I would check your wiring again.

Or get a multimeter and check the sub output at the amp for voltage.

If you're not getting sounds, there gotta be something between the radio and the amp. You have sounds on all other speakers from the same amp?

 

The input sensitivity should not be crank all the way up. It should stay around 4-5v. So basically turning clockwise, from a rest position, very slightly. This is to match the headunit. If your hu puts out 4.5v, dial the amp gain to 4.5v.. not at 0.5v, there will be tons of hissing when silent.

 

Sure James can help you trouble shoot. My first thoughts are;
1) Did you or James program the maestro RR? If James I know that it is good to go
2) Are the RCA wires correct from the radio to amp?
The only concerning comment I'm not sure of, was the "I had to play with the Toyota plugs" almost indicates there is wiring issue somewhere. I know the documentation doesn't go into detail in this area, but sorta working sounds like a signal thingy...

 

Tick the input selector over to AB and see if it does anything.

 

Good, that aligns with my interpretation. Don't know why I was instructed to crank them to 0.5v.

I'll take a pic to show what I mean, of the actual Toyota plugs. Maestro only indicates three plugs yet there are four. Furthermore, two are identical in shape & size.

 

Ok some progress:
- Turned the input sensitivity to 4.5, this eliminated the hiss entirely. Good.
- It turns out that ALL the speakers are actually rather quiet. All the gains settings are supposed to be calibrated at 75% volume level. On my HU that's 30 (out of 4) and at that setting I can hear music at a comfortable level. But down at something like 10 I can hardly hear it at all. It is as if the HU is hardly sending any signal out, for some reason.

As for "who programmed the Maestro." Me, of course. There are only three options presented:
1) With JBL
2) With Amp
3) Without Amp

I've tried [2] and [3] already, doesn't seem to make a difference. And I don't have JBL, so I never pick that option. But even if I did, would it matter? We've ripped out the entire Toyota audio infrastructure aside from the speaker wires.

 

And here are the pics of the Toyota plugs. Three connected, one orphan plug remaining. It is identical in shape & size to one of the others and I initially had it plugged in. But pretty sure it's not the correct one since it's black. I thought "surely none of these will be the same, if they fit it's good." Not the case.


And Maestro doesn't show the "extra" plug, it implies there are only three.

 

We need to dig into your connection here.
1. Are you using the amp bypass harness?
2. Your photo show this black plug connected to the factory harness. It shows the speakers wiring, white, green purple, grey.


If you are using the bypass harness, under passenger seat, this black connector need to be disconnected.

 

I have no idea, I don't know what an "Amp bypass harness" is. I received these two harnesses from tech12volts and connected them per the instructions from James, mostly speaker wires going to the back of the amp.

 

Do you have a picture of the cables plugged into your amp?

 

So unplugging that smaller black Toyota harness didn't make any difference. Now I only have the two white Toyota cables plugged into the metra harness.

Here you go

 

Anyone know what voltage I'm supposed to see on the "Amp Turn On" wire? The one that is typically blue and comes out of the HU?

Per Maestro wiring diagram I connected this between the HU and the Maestro harness. But I also pulled it off from there and took it to the Amp.

 

Unplug the black plug i circled in red.
The harness that is under the passenger seat is the bypass harness. That need to go to the amp's speakers output.
You already have the rcas from hu to amp input.

 

12v, it is just an ACC ON feed to turn the amp on.

 

Yeah already unplugged the black plug per your suggestion. Didn't make a difference.

 

You set the sub amp gain on the amp.
The HU sub gain on that setting of your Kenwood only lowers that setting, you can't increase the sub gain on the HU.

Although there is a sub level that goes up or down on your EQ.
In your pic below it is set on '0' maybe why you can't hear your sub..





You need to hit ALL SRC for the EQ unless you need to set each output source individually.
Right now you are only effecting the bluetooth output..

 

did you try unplugging your remote sub knob?

 

Your HU Preamp Voltage is 5 volts set your amp gains accordingly.

Kenwood Excelon X802-5 X Series 5-channel car amplifier — 50 watts RMS x 4 at 4 ohms + 500 watts RMS x 1 at 2 ohms at Crutchfield

Your amp's Line In: The amp will accept a signal between 200mV and 5V.
You shouldn't need to turn your gains up very high to get where you need to be.
You can see your minimum gain setting is 5 volts



Here are my amp and HU crossover settings.
You can try using them as a starting point and see if you can go from there.
I was surprised to see how low the gains needed to be set for optimal sound quality..

I have a Kenwood Excelon - 5 volts output.
My amp input sensitivity is 0.2 - 4 volts

My gains are not set on MAX they are set to the 10:00 position.
I'm using the crossovers in the HU.
All my amp crossovers are set flat (off) sub crossover set to 600Hz.
Subsonic filter doesn't matter if your enclosure is sealed.



Someone may have mentioned this but,
As far as your crossovers, either set them on the HU or on the amp, not both.
Just turn off your amp crossovers and use the HU to adjust them.
Much easier to adjust when you're by yourself, makes it easier to actually listen to the differences than running back and forth from the driver's seat to the amp.
Once you understand and hear what you feel you want the crossovers to be at, you can then experiment with turning off the HU crossovers and setting them on the amp.
I don't think it makes any difference, many feel like it is better to set them on the amp.

Slopes are a personal preference, after you get it dialed in, experiment with them to your liking.

Front

Rear

Sub



And turn all this off until (and maybe after) you get everything set up to your liking.
Only thing I can see using is a little loudness at low levels, but your sub knob should take care of that.


Good luck..

 

SOLVED (And BTW: Only the White Wide Toyota plug and Grey Wide Toyota plug are needed for Maestro; the small black plug and Wide Black plug are not)

1lowlife, thanks!! That's almost exactly the setup I ended up with (James had called me and we walked through it)
- Disabled the Amp Hi/low crossovers entirely
- Set it up from the HU instead
- Made the door speakers around 4v on input sensitivity (gain)
- Made the Sub about 2v - going any further to the right made it too 'boomy' IMO
- Added some level control on the typical inputs I used, but I only show USB

Now it rattles my mirror!

Note: Didn't take a pic but set the "SW Level" (HU Sub Gain) to +9

 

I worked on that post for 20 minutes..
Might want to re read it in case I posted something afterwards.......

Glad you got it going..

Your thread will end up helping others in the future..
Keep us posted....

 

Glad you were able to get it all worked out. I figured James would get you going when he had time to get on the phone with you.

On a side note, that head unit looks awesome... maybe my wife's Highlander can use the "upgrade" from my Pioneer and I'll pick up that Kenwood for my truck...