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Transmission cooler or not Thread

Discussion in '2.5 Gen Tundras (2014-2021)' started by Mad Max, Oct 12, 2020.

  1. Jan 16, 2021 at 8:30 AM
    #571
    Genuine Cooling Systems

    Genuine Cooling Systems New Member Vendor

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    I would consider 212F "normal" and would not be concerned with adding a cooler. Last summer I heard multiple people reporting they were having the "high ATF warning" while towing. This warning only activates at temperatures above 302F at the pan which is breaking down the ATF at a alarming rate. I expect to see the same reports going into spring and summer time frames. Adding a cooler may not be needed for most however, for those that tow or want the piece of mind that they can tow without their ATF temperatures being crazy high, adding a transmission cooler is necessary.
     
    co2owen, Ruggybuggy and AZBoatHauler like this.
  2. Jan 16, 2021 at 8:49 AM
    #572
    blanchard7684

    blanchard7684 New Member

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    Not pertinent to "too cold" discussion but an interesting read from another forum: 2012 Sequoia, 4.6, no aux cooler, 4.30 gears (towing package). Got pan temps to 245 on slow speed hill climb. In Drive, tow haul off, 4 Hi.

    I'm betting the TC was unlocked the entire time. Hot lock up schedule doesn't hit until 257-265F ( @Vizsla found this).

    Looks like Toyota has been running this no-aux cooler config with 4.30 gears for a while now (only on 4.6?). Point being it isn't a 2019+ only modification.
     
  3. Jan 16, 2021 at 8:53 AM
    #573
    JohnLakeman

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    Responding to an old post, but based on the temperatures I saw Thursday in cold weather with thermostat unpinned (Pan = 183 deg, TC =203 deg, coolant =194 deg), my conclusion is ATF to the thermostat is torque converter outlet temperature. That would explain the ATF thermostat being open at ~195-200 degrees, and the ATF in the pan (183 deg) being sub-cooled below engine coolant temp (194 deg). The thermostat was open, and cooling was occurring. No towing involved, just driving through the Hill Country.
     
  4. Jan 16, 2021 at 8:55 AM
    #574
    blanchard7684

    blanchard7684 New Member

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    Yeah I'm just throwing shit out there on what could possibly be claimed on too low of ATF temps. Transmission issues related to temperature are probably 99:1 from heat across 100+ years of auto transmissions. Cold related issue are likely to be real, but very rare.

    For Cold ATF temps to be an issue this is what I'd look for

    Signs of moisture build up (milky looking ATF)
    TC failures that can be traced to something like material fatigue...stemming from high shear loads.
    Corrosion signs on gears, pumps, TC, etc
    Pump failures from long exposure to high viscosity
    Bearing issues...thrust mostly.


    Its interesting though that Toyota seems to have a real penchant for super high temps in the AB60F. It may be the case that these things have a really wide temperature operating range.
     
  5. Jan 16, 2021 at 8:59 AM
    #575
    AZBoatHauler

    AZBoatHauler SSEM#140/ASCM#3/2ndGenNaysayer/BAF140

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    I think this was the conclusion that led us to where we are. :thumbsup:
     
  6. Jan 16, 2021 at 9:00 AM
    #576
    JohnLakeman

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    :rofl:
     
  7. Jan 16, 2021 at 9:03 AM
    #577
    JohnLakeman

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    I have long suspected this cooler discussion was "circular argument". :rofl::rofl::rofl:
     
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  8. Jan 16, 2021 at 9:07 AM
    #578
    blanchard7684

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    Another interesting read about transmission thermal issues: Looks to me like a Tstat malfunction. Looks like an ECM reflash was done also.
     
  9. Jan 18, 2021 at 1:46 PM
    #579
    atomheart

    atomheart New Member

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    hayden trans cooler eibach 2.0 roadmaster active suspension hd dd bamuffler 10"
    Question: What is the concern about atf moisture increase / addition when adding an external cooler that’s part of a closed fluid loop / cycle?
    Isn't an external cooler just a different form of the 2018 and earlier transmission coolers? Were there moisture concerns with the OEM atf cooling arrangement / components?
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  10. Jan 18, 2021 at 1:50 PM
    #580
    Ruggybuggy

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    Moisture from running the aft too cool but it's not an issue if you make sure to remove the pin after the install.

    Honestly it's probably not issue even if the pin is in.
     
  11. Jan 18, 2021 at 2:11 PM
    #581
    JohnLakeman

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    Normally, it's moisture from the atmosphere that enters the transmission, not water from any coolant connections to the ATF cooling circuit. These transmissions are described as "sealed", but that does not mean they are air-tight.

    Like @Ruggybuggy says, free water in the fluid is highly unlikely to be a problem IMO unless you are fording deep streams regularly.
     
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  12. Apr 2, 2021 at 12:08 PM
    #582
    Acedude

    Acedude New Member

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    Have you folks seen this TFL Ike Gauntlet test? 246 degrees at the top measured with a ScanGauge, 8klb trailer.

    Video: Does The 2021 Toyota Tundra NEED A Transmission Cooler? We Find Out On The Ike Gauntlet! - The Fast Lane Truck (tfltruck.com)

    Bought a Sequoia without the external cooler and will be towing a 26' Airstream. 246 seems reasonable considering it's Ike and we'll be doing Ike, Kenosha and Raton often.

    My thinking right now is don't spend for the mod. Will certainly change the ATF on say a 60k mile interval. Maybe Blackstone it at the first change. Truck has only 30k on it now and never towed before, receiver and 7-pin have clearly never been used.

    I'm a cheapskate and already have about $41k into it and that's a lot for us, so don't want to overspend.
     
  13. Apr 2, 2021 at 12:14 PM
    #583
    AZBoatHauler

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    I’ll throw this in for consideration - I believe running up the Ike actually helped keep the trans temp lower than one would see on a more moderate grade which would allow the trans to shift into the overdrive gears creating substantially more heat. The truck won’t go to 5 or 6 with the pedal to the floor and staying in 4 or lower will keep the torque converter from cooking the oil too bad.

    welcome.
     
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  14. Apr 2, 2021 at 1:40 PM
    #584
    Acedude

    Acedude New Member

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    Thanks. I believe the tow/haul button keeps you out of the OD 5th and 6th gears. Don't know for sure but read something about that.

    Just received the RCI front skid like in your pic, one of the first orders made.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
    AZBoatHauler[QUOTED] likes this.
  15. Apr 2, 2021 at 2:22 PM
    #585
    AZBoatHauler

    AZBoatHauler SSEM#140/ASCM#3/2ndGenNaysayer/BAF140

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    Tow / haul does a lot - but it doesn’t lock out 5 and 6.
     
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  16. Apr 2, 2021 at 3:16 PM
    #586
    Ruggybuggy

    Ruggybuggy Seasoned Veteran

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    A 26' Airstream is a very heavy trailer for its size. If your going to tow often for long distances the smart choice is to put in a cooler. If you plan on not keeping the truck after warranty be a cheapskate and don't worry about it.

    As for TFL, they use to be a good independent source for info but since they have been taking money from sponser's products they have been featuring they've toned down there criticism.
     
  17. Apr 2, 2021 at 3:59 PM
    #587
    Acedude

    Acedude New Member

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    I'll use the sequential shift then along with tow/haul. I don't know jack about this machine yet. All I know is I want it in 4th gear towing so the TC is locked up.
     
  18. Apr 2, 2021 at 4:15 PM
    #588
    Avi8or

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    Review of the chasenicholas93 cooler setup.

    Pulled a Heartland Mallard 185 (4500 lbs and fairly high profile) from KC to Table Rock Lake this week. Highest pan temp I saw was 208F, but only briefly. Pan temp stayed under 200F 99% of the time. Mostly 194-198. Only while climbing Ozark hills would the pan temp break 200F.

    Drove 70 MPH both ways.

    Very satisfied with this kit. (My kit uses the Hayden heat exchanger).

    Forgot to add...ambient was 60F on the way there and 50F on the way back. Also, I use a scangauge for pan and converter temps.


    Last summer I saw pan temps in the 230s just commuting. Not hot yet, but current commuting sits right about 195-200.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
  19. Apr 2, 2021 at 4:25 PM
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    Acedude

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    TFL doesn't f around from what I've seen. They tested the Tundra and found with a ScanGauge it went to 246 degrees hauling 8klbs on Ike.

    Yeah, the Airstream is a heavy bastard. Thanks for the advice.
     
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  20. Apr 2, 2021 at 4:28 PM
    #590
    Genuine Cooling Systems

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    Do you mean the Hayden cooler? Glad to hear your transmission temps dropped drastically.
     
  21. Apr 3, 2021 at 6:46 AM
    #591
    Avi8or

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    Yes. Meant Hayden. Edited.
     
  22. Apr 3, 2021 at 8:24 AM
    #592
    Mad Max

    Mad Max [OP] New Member

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    TFL talks out of both sides of their mouth. One video Tundra is dated and lethargic, next video wow 246F trans temp just as Toyota designed. Who the fk tows in 30F weather with their IKE gauntlet bs, come on down to south in the summer where its 98F.
     
  23. Apr 3, 2021 at 10:52 AM
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    Acedude

    Acedude New Member

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    Well, Ike Gauntlet is at high altitude so you lose maybe 40% of your horsepower. Everything in the drivetrain has to work harder to maintain speed.

    Towing up Ike is a great comparison test no matter the time of year. Sure, you have to factor in some variables but TFL does a great job keeping the variables minimal.

    Maybe this cooler upgrade is something to be done. I've cheaped out on things before and regretted it. I just have this cheap gene in my DNA.
     
  24. Apr 3, 2021 at 12:21 PM
    #594
    Mad Max

    Mad Max [OP] New Member

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    as far as the cooler upgrade. I did it. I get bored it entertained me for 3 hours. Results were perfect and I have the Hayden cooler. If you truck is paid off you have no other bills, sure do it. If not it would be the last thing to spend money on if your truck is under warranty. If you have even a 25% chance of selling your truck under 75K miles don't do it let it cook. Prior to cooler I was getting 220F zero load. Towing my boat at 72mph my trans temp stays at 195-198F.
     
  25. Apr 3, 2021 at 1:00 PM
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    blanchard7684

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    yep when you go up pikes peak cars overheat in the 40s . The air is thin and mass flow drops across radiator.
     
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  26. Apr 3, 2021 at 2:23 PM
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    Catmann1972

    Catmann1972 New Member

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    So, i was totally on the fence about adding the transmission cooler. I figured the truck is under warranty and whatever happens, Toyota will have to fix it. Matter of fact I was DEAD set aggenst it, until i witnessed a transmission failure on a 2019 Tundra. My wife and I were camping in New Hampshire. We were sitting at our campsite by the fire, around 7pm when my wife turned to me and said "What is that god awful smell". I am a Diesel Technician and I knew right away what the smell was. I said, dear that would me transmission fluid. I turned around to see where it was coming from and low and behold, it was a 2019 Tundra DC SR5 pulling a 34' travel trailer. The truck never even made it to his camp site. The truck/transmission failed in the middle of the road. I walked over to the gentlemen to see if I could assist and ask what the issue was. He said he noticed his trans temps in the 250-300 range on the travel up from Cape Cod, which was about 200 miles or so. He said the last 10 miles the truck started to shift oddley and he started to smell the fluid burning. He said the heck with it and drove it anyway right to the campground, by-passed the check in shack and coasted as far as he could to his site. He obviously didn't make it to his site, the truck died about 100' from his site. Luckley he was camping with friends that hooked up to his camper and got it onto his site. About 2 hours later 9(PM) a tow truck came and picked up the truck. The truck was gone all week, then returned on a flat bed just before check out the next day. The Tundra only had 18k miles on it. Seeing this changed my attitude towards the cooler. I do not want to have to go through what this guy went through on vacation. I came home from that vacation/camping trip and researched and ordered my kit. I will be installing it before this camping season for sure. I do several long trips each year that are around 1500 miles each, so I think installing the trans kit will be a good idea and a piece of mind thing.
     
  27. Apr 3, 2021 at 3:26 PM
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    Half track

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    For a 34' travel trailer he should of bought a 1 ton truck. Don't blame the tundra. Blame the driver. The average 34' travel trailer is about 10,000lbs empty. With about 3,000 lbs load capacity.
    This about 130% of max. Load. Any 1/2 ton truck would have major problems.
     
  28. Apr 3, 2021 at 3:31 PM
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    Clemsonman14

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    I would love to know if Toyota covered this under warranty since he was probably operating outside of payload and towing capacity stated for the truck
     
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  29. Apr 3, 2021 at 4:54 PM
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    Catmann1972

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    You know I couldn't ask him that question. He left the campground before we even woke up the next morning. I was curious myself.
     
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  30. Apr 3, 2021 at 5:00 PM
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    Catmann1972

    Catmann1972 New Member

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    Actually I did look up the trailer he had, cuz that was my first thought as well. It was a 30' but 34' overall length and it was an ultra lite, but it did weigh in at 900LB tongue weight and 9300LB gross weight. It was heavy and I'm sure he was over weight. So yes I would agree, he was a dumb ass for towing that trailer. Non the less, it was a wake up call for my original thought on weather to install a trans cooler or not. He did say he did NOT have a trans cooler and did not know his truck did not have one. I remember cuz we argued for a few minutes over it, and I didn't even know this man from a hole in the wall. I was just trying to help
     
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