06 Limited DC - Terrible Off-Road Ride with 5100s and 275s

I've got an 2006 with 215k on it. Runs like a champ. Rides like hell.



I put a set of 5100s on it, lowest clip setting. I didn't want any lift because this is kinda my tour vehicle for when older family comes to visit.

When it came time to replace the tires, I figured if I was spending good money I might as well spend more money and get something decent, so I went with General Grabber AT2s in 275/70R17. Barely clear the front UCA. Great tires, though.

I run relatively low pressures on the street, around 30psi because I'm not carrying a compressor currently, so I don't want to mess with pressures offroad.

Despite this, the truck still rides pretty terrible off road. Seems very stiff, lots of body movement. I'd think with worn out springs it would ride softer. Instead the opposite seems true. Unless I'm missing some sort of adjustment for the 5100s to soften them up?

Is there anything outside of a long-arm job that can make this thing ride really good off road? I'd prefer not to go with coilovers and new springs, but if that's what it takes...

 

I would highly recommend getting a compressor or CO2 bottle that way you can air down when you are off road. The tires will have a bigger foot print and absorb more of the bumps. You will still feel the effects of stiff, filled tires with "off-road performance suspension".

I run my tires at 15-20 psi off road, even lighter if I'm going through soft sand, then 40 on the street. The truck is almost unbearable for me with 30-40 psi in the dirt. There is a big difference in ride quality when airing down.

Driving short stretches on pavement with low tires is okay, such as taking pavement to connect two trails, just take it easy and don't corner hard. Also don't go on the freeway.

 

I can't speak for 5100's, but even when I air down to 18PSI, my Icon's are still horrible off-road at low speed. There are times my seatbelt is the only thing keeping me from getting bounced into the ceiling. I do agree it just makes sense to air down and buy a compressor.

Are you running 5100's up front @des2mtn ? I can't remember your setup.

 

What load range on the tire? If your running E, don’t expect a smooth ride

 

I guess I should add I'm not running 5100's. I'm running Toytecs (which I don't recommend off road) until I get the time to put in my Kings.

This too.

 

I would consider putting the 5100s on OME 2884 springs. You shouldn't get much lift. maybe an inch or so. I think it would help the ride because you are not over extending the factory spring.

 

Here is a link for the springs.

https://www.1stgenoffroad.com/store/p66/ARBOLDMANEMUSPRINGS.html#/

 

Not meaning to hijack, but trying to help, what is the best riding front struts?

 

If you want a lift, the best for the price are Bilstein 5100s in my opinion.
If you dont want a lift, Bilstein 4600s are a good way to go. I have 4600s on right now and they have been about 150,000 miles so they are very durable. I am planning on upgrading to the 5100s soon because I would like a lift.
If you go with the 5100s, I would get OME 2885 or 2887 coils springs to mount them on. It helps with the ride quality and longevity of the shock.

Here is where I would buy from. Josh, the owner, is very knowledgeable.
https://www.1stgenoffroad.com/store/c18/TundraSuspension#/

 

Bilstein (and Icon for that matter) are valved digressively. This means when its a quick and short jolt, the shock acts hard. When its a slower and bigger jolt the shock acts soft.

This can provide a comfortable ride on road and in most cases off road, but on little things like washboard it will ride stiff. Using stock progressive coils should help to keep the ride tolerable when you are hitting small bumps as the coil is using its weaker section to flex over that.

I'm not familiar enough with the OME coils but if they are linear it may make the issue worse, with linear coils you have a single spring rate and typically starts at 600lbs (takes 600lbs to compress the coil one inch). If the OME coils are progressive then they should be okay but might not be a benefit over the stock coils for ride (benefit if you want lift). *keeping in mind the OP mentions not wanting lift.

Agree with @FrenchToasty that E rated tires are surprisingly rigid compared to C or D rated tires. I sometimes regret going from C to E rating. E are far stiffer and considerably heavier.

 

Yeah all the instabros with 5th gen 4runners went bigger tires and E load tires due to the weight added from all the mods deemed it necessary, then followed by threads of how shitty and all the new noises that came along with it.
A tech was even telling me our trucks are to light for Eload tires to do any good off reading. I can definitely tell the 4runner with bfg Cload, squat waaaaay better when aired down to 18psi compared to the Eload toyo OC ATlll.

 

My 5100's are the nearly the lowest setting. From what I understand, that is nearly stock. How would the stock spring be over-extended in this situation?

I'm not even sure I understand or buy the reasoning here. An "over-extended" spring would be one that rattles around the shock during droop situations.

By OME's specs, the stock springs should be a lower spring rate than even their 2884 springs. Unless they are winding them differently like progressive spring I'd have a hard time believing they will ride much different. In fact, I've seen people say that this setup (5100s and 2884s) rides rougher than stock and most people go to C-Rated tires to improve ride quality.

If anything, I might be interested in a progressive wound coil that is super soft initially and stiffens up as it compresses. The swaybars should be there to control lean on the street.

 

I have always run E rated tires, even on 80-89 Toyota Pickups, 97 4Runner, 2001 Tacoma and never thought it was that bad!

 

I spoke too soon, but at least you backed up some of my assumptions.

Does anyone make a really light progressive coil for the 1st Gen Tundra?

 

Your assumptions are all on the money. I think he said over extended but meant overcompressed, that doesn't apply when you're on the first notch (and in my own opinion doesn't work how most think).

I have not seen any softer coils than stock for the Tundra. Most manufacturers only go heavier to accommodate off road bumpers/armor and achieve lift. The lowest linear coils I have seen commonly is 600lbs. There may be a 550lbs to be found if you dig around enough.

I think unfortunately most of the harshness you feel is from the tires. To put it into perspective I used to run D rated Yokohama Geolandar, they were a bit stiffer than the original tires but not uncomfortable on or off road in the ballpark of 30psi. I switched to C rated Mickey Thompson ATZ, they had a harder tread but softer sidewall, which turned out very comfortable off road even near 30psi. I most recently went back to Yokohama but with the E rated, thinking I could handle a bit more stiffness. First time I drove off road with them it felt like my truck had no suspension. I had flashbacks to being a teenager and jumping a Honda Odyssey (remember those go kart things with no shocks or springs?) To add to the harshness, when I did the chalk test I found that 30psi was too low, they needed more like 40psi to run flat on the pavement. I will likely drop to 18psi next time I see dirt.


If you want to pursue a softer coil, give a call to either Wheelers Off Road or Toytec, either one are a big help to the Toyota community. I used to run a version of Toytec coilover that was really just a 5100 shock with a 600lbs linear coil, it rode pretty well everywhere but short jolts like speed bumps would buck if I hit them fast.

 

215k miles, no mention of control arm bushings, ball joints, end links, tie rods ? How is the rest of the suspension other than the new 5100 ?

 

I just want to add I have C rated KO2's and it hasn't helped my off-road comfort at low speeds. All our trails here are pretty slow/rocky/rutted. I'd like to ride in someone's truck that has Kings or Fox.

 

I have been trying to find some kings to ride in for years. I will bite the bullet one day. Or maybe ads.

 

Front sway bar will limit individual wheel travel and feel stiffer off road as well. But I second the tires being a likely cause, I switched to P rated since most of my driving is on highway now. Rides much better than my E rated LT tires.

 

I love riding dirty with no sway bar; this weekend I did some Italian tuneups on the freeway, and had fun torquing the frame with the skinny pedal

 

I ran E-rated Toyo OC H/Ts before going to E-rated KO2s, the Toyos were harder the KO2s. I get good squat/ cushion aired down off-road with them, but if I get on pavement that way I notice it for sure.

Y'all give me hand putting on my new front end then we all can go thrash it. Maybe I won't be scared to dc my sway bar then.

 

Come to Tucson, I’ll help do both!

 

I have 5100s set up one notch and the factory off road package springs. Also have skinny 245 E rated Bridgestones inflated to 45 lbs. Skinny tires help the ride. For the most part, on a dirt road the ride was fine, however I got on a washboard road and thought the truck would shake itself to pieces. Told the guy at the state park about it and he said if you go about 40 mph you'll be fine and sure enough, the ride out of the park was fine.

I'll have to drive the dirt road in BLM near a local park and report back...I should also mention I have 2wd so 4wd would be rougher.