2022 Tundra

Out of 3 fords, 2 Toyota’s, and one Ram. The only brand I didn’t have to take my truck into the shop for repairs was Toyota. That’s just my own real world experience.

 

agree with all of this and have no problem with the Toyota take it or leave it, Im cool with that, I don't mind giving my 50-60K to another truck if I like it better, I did it before, I would do it again.

and you made a great point, lets hope whatever Toyota does is not like the tacoma "upgrades". I just had one for a rental, and what a gutless POS, worst trans and tune ever in a truck. (no offense to any owners here, just not for me at all).

all of that said, I WANT a tundra that is in-line with what the others have and with Toyota build quality and reliability, it so easy could be done. My old man just bought the new ground up 2021 highlander platinum and the interior and materials, etc layout, function is top notch. Toyota has all the shit we want, they just have to decide to do it in teh tundra, that is the sticking point.

come on toyota, lay a bad ass new tundra on us, smart truck with great storage and cool shit like the on-board generator. I have my pile of cash waiting for you.

and I dont want to see any of this total shit material and color mismatch anymore. look at the radio area in a platinum tundra, machined around the top then goes to a painted smooth, colors and alignment for shit and works like total shit. just one small example

 

GMC is pretty damn good by this measure, what the hell happened to the Lincoln, LOL

 

Too much luxury BS added to an already problem-ridden platform?

Yeah if I needed more truck, I’d have a GM 2500 gasser with their 6.6L/6-speed. That drivetrain is almost as old as the Tundra’s.

 

Plenty of people do tow very large trailers with them, but yes, I generally agree weight helps. If you are planning on towing a 38' 9000 lb travel trailer, spec the truck right. Don't go down and buy a short bed with no tow package like some morons do.

The thing is, most half ton owners don't even tow never mind towing a 9000 lb 38' long box down the road, so who is Ford going to cater too?

You can bitch and moan about twin turbo V6's and weight reduction until the cows come home, but I guarantee its coming to the Toyota lot near you. I just hope they do it right the first time and keep with their reputation for reliability.

This. I want the Tundra to be awesome. I am cheering them on from the sidelines. I am not brand loyal and I will choose the truck that best fits my needs and the current tundra is not it but this next generation looks like it might be.

What is amazing to me is that the Lexus GX only just got AndroidAuto/Carplay for 2021. Its a $70k mid sized SUV. If Toyota can't figure out how to make a reliable headunit that can do AA/CP in the last 8 years, thats not because it wasn't possible. Its because they are lazy.

This is as a 2011 Lexus GX owner. I bought mine used with $20,500. As a 2011, the thing is decent, but I know they have gone largely unchanged until 2021, and if I was looking to drop $70k on a new luxury suv I would be laughing my way out of the Lexus dealer. Heated and cooled seats and an ancient nav system don't cost 70k. In fact, I know they only cost no more than $42k because thats what I paid for my fully loaded 2014 F150 lariat.

This is where i am at. Make a truck that is reliable but can keep up with or beat the specs of the domestics. Thats exactly what they did in 2007. The Tundra destroyed the competition when it came out with its DOHC V8 and fancy 5 speed. The hilarious part is that that was "high tech" at the time. No one was running DOHC V8's with variable valve timing, nevermind making anywhere near 381 hp. Even by 2014 the F150 wasnt making as much HP as the 5.7L Tundra. Im sure the Toyota fanboys were not whining then.

It doesn't have to tow the most, no one is towing 14,000 lb trailers with their half tons, but if it can tow right up to its tow ratings reliably and have the payload capacity to do it, then its plenty.

Thats fine. Again, I never said they were the same reliability but I also wasn't the one saying that people who don't know have never left the Toyota forums. Well guess what, I would imagine there are probably 6x as many people on the Ford forums having at least 6x as many issue, so it probably looks pretty bad from a Toyota fanboys perspective when they poke their head out of the cave. Forums are where people flock if they have an issue. People come in, bitch about their issue, get it fixed, then never come back. Happens all the time.

And yet people deal with it and continue buying 600k F150's a year and same with GM and Ram. I promise you, not every single one of those 2 million people buying domestic trucks each year is a moron. There are a ton of really smart folks in fact, who are very capable with a wrench and want a high technology truck. They just arn't curmudgeons who have zero tolerance for making a repair.

Look at the Tacoma. The current gen is a joke and anyone who owns one and knows anything thinks the driveline sucks. I test drove all the mid-sized trucks a couple years ago and even the 17 year old Frontier made the new Taco looks like a turd. And yet Toyota still sells a ton of them. Probably more than all the other mid-sized trucks combine. There doesn't seem to be a ton of logic to it other than thats what they want.

 

The 6.6L is brand new and has direct injection. The 6 speed is old.

 

I agree with most of the recent posts. However, if I were going to spend 50k on a new truck it would either get a Ram Rebel but would probably end up in an F250 with the new 7.3 gasser.

 

Looks fine to me. People say the GM ones are too uniform so the screen doesn't stand out enough. Make up your minds!

 

When did I ever bitch and moan about that?

 

What you guys all need to remember is that Toyota (like all corporations) is in the business first and foremost of making money. So if they've been able to sell every GX they produce between 2011 and 2020 without losing any market share to their competitors, what would be the advantage of adding AA/CP to the car?

 

You’re right; they’re not the same reliability. They’re wildly different. Those are hard facts on the ground regardless of what you speculate regarding production numbers. This is true. Period. Just like it’s true that the F150 has better payload and towing numbers. I’ve spent a lot of time at the GM and Ford forums. I agree with you that people get on forums to gripe, and that can paint an unfair picture of a product. Happens here, too. But it happens far more with the domestics, even when you control for the number of trucks produced. The themes at the GM and Ford truck forums are issues. The theme here is mods. I am not a Toyota fanboy. My other vehicle is a Yukon XL, which has been ok for us.

I have my gripes with Toyota. Some are minor (driver’s grab handle, floor under crewmax seat, etc..); some are arguably not minor (weak rear leafs, trans cooler deletion). But the actual facts on the ground are that Toyota is far more reliable. It has nothing to do with how many trucks each manufacturer makes. Ford is sitting at a 26/100 overall rating. Toyota is over 3x that number. DL compiled those numbers based on inspections of almost 300k vehicles for Ford and Toyota each.

I don’t think people who buy Fords are morons. I *do* think most of them do it because of the marketing “iTs ThE nUmBeR oNe SeLlInG tRuCk In ThE uSa”. Everyone in my life who drives a Ford (neighbors, Grandpa, uncle, father in law, both brothers in law, several friends in the music industry) brings up that slogan every time we talk trucks. That slogan settles it for them. They think there’s no way Ford would say it if it weren’t true. To me, this supports the idea that Americans are conditioned to expect issues with their vehicles just like all the other crap consumer products we buy and then throw away when they fail instead of fixing. Some guys on here have mentioned the way other people talk about their cars (“that car was very reliable for me...I only had to replace little stuff, like the transmission before I traded it in at 100k miles” ). I know several people who think that way, too.

I don’t like the current gen Taco. A Camry with a bed is my favorite way to describe it. They sell like hot cakes because they look cool and they’re still insanely reliable. The Taco’s overall score at Dashboard Light is 93/100 with the 3rd gen being rated 100/100 (although I would argue the 3rd gens are not old enough to truly test *long term* reliability).

 

No, you know what they will do? They will complain that they couldn't sell enough Lexus GX's and say there was no market for it and stop making them. Just like the Land Cruiser/Lexus LX. The Land Cruiser was worse because it started at $85k and was lagging just as bad as the GX.

Meanwhile, GM is pumping out $90,000 Escalades at 10x the sales that Toyota could sell the Land Cruiser.

There is a difference between being slow to progress and simply sitting on a platform for 14 years and letting it die on the vine.

 

If you think you can do a better job than the largest automaker on the planet, take a swing at it.

Enthusiasts, such as those who frequent the forums, have never and will never drive bulk vehicle sales.

 

"You" was meant to be general. It seems like quite a few folks think a V6 will be gutless and they will have to rev the piss out of it while also replacing turbos every 15k miles.

Meanwhile, the 3.5L Ecoboost is making 500 ft-lbs of torque at 3100 rpm and the 2.7L is churning out 400 ft-lbs at 3000 rpm and consuming up to 1/3 less fuel on average(real world Fuelly numbers, not EPA).

 

Exactly. People who have no idea what they are doing drive the sales, and why GM sells 10x as many escalades. They sit in the Escalade and see all the shiny objects and sit in a Land Cruiser that still looks like their 10 year old Escalade they are trading in.

I appreciate what a Land Cruiser or GX really is. But I also appreciate the astronomical price and short comings.

Seems like Toyota is more interested in selling appliance vehicles like Camry's and Corolla's in beige, silver and white, which is extremely unfortunate considering what they could be doing with some of the cooler vehicles in their portfolio.

 

You are 100% correct but here’s the flip side to this. When the gas prices go through the roof...and they are well on their way...everyone is going to have an extremely difficult time of selling a full-size SUV. The full-size pickup market will fair much better but not great. Watch how different the Tundra/F150/Sierra/Ram market looks next year. And yes even if the Suburban out sells the sequoia 20 to 1 who cares because in the end it’s a small market compared to the CUV/sedan market which Toyota has a extremely strong hold of. The Tundra is a great truck and I would not buy any other truck but Toyota will never be a major competitor in the full-size truck market. Keep them reliable/simple and they will sell (look how many Toyota forums have had multiple owners of the same models of Toyota’s)...Financially it is an ingenious long term decision.

 

Agreed. I think Ford and GM ditching their small cars is short sighted. Isn't that part of why they all went bankrupt a few years back?

 

Extremely shorted sighted... And these other manufacturers change engines/transmissions too often. I remember when my sisters Chevy Cavalier needed a motor. There were three different variations of the same motor and I helped track down the correct one down...what a PITA!

 

that why the new tundra should only come with a 6.2 iForce V8, HEHE...

 

Haha! I meant to say Chevy had 3 different 4 cylinder engines for the same year. Not including their V6 motors. A 6.2 iForce would be wild...

 

Sounds a bit like the Pontiac Vibe. My dad had a first gen, which was mechanically identical to a Toyota Matrix, which was mechanically identical to a Corolla. When GM put out the second gen, they replaced the Toyota 1.6L I4 with their own 1.6L I4 engine and the fuel economy got way worse.

 

Hahahahaha. Your hysterics are always a delight.

All OEMs are struggling with AA/CP - significantly so actually. Wireless only adds additional hiccups and headaches. Even non-OEMs are constantly fighting battles between software issues, hardware issues, and phone issues. It is a GIANT can of worms, all in the name of "convenience." So many random reboots, audio suddenly stopping, dropped calls, and beyond, which drive people nuts - especially when navigating or driving. I don't blame any OEM from not wanting to touch that hot pile of garbage.

 

Next time you see a Ford/gm/ram half ton in a parking lot bend down and look underneath it. The transfer case/ transmission crossmember hangs below the frame. Then look at your tundra, the frame is the lowest point unless you have a 38 gallon tank and even that doesn’t hang to far below. As someone who does take their truck off the road it’s nice to know everything is tucked up out of the way.

 

But there’s nothing under the rear seat but foam. That’s why the esp storage exists. Toyota has under seat storage for the DC so they could’ve also added it to the CM.

 

Philosophical question here as much as anything:

If Toyota has resisted all the bells and whistles because they lead to reliability issues, does that mean one shouldn’t buy a new Tundra if it is introduced with all the bells and whistles?

 

No. Toyota never opposes progress and innovation. They just don't usually tack it on first. They test it and put it through it's paces to make sure they can get it working before they implement it. Even then it is frequently one model at a time so as to reduce risk to the overall brand.

 

there is still a transmission tunnel underneath the rear seat that prevents a truly flat floor and is the reason the esp boxes only have a box under the outside seats. I agree that Toyota should have put something like the esp boxes under the rear seat, but I would hate for them to lower the power train just to have a 100% flat floor from the back of the front seats like the big 3 do. It’s features like that, that sell trucks but end up biting people who use there trucks as trucks down the road. Same with all the air damns on the front bumper that every farmer and construction worker has dangling off or just completely broken off their front bumper.

 

There is a small hump in the middle between the foot area, but not sure what you mean about the esp box only having a box under the outside seats. There is a box in the middle. I had mine out recently and it’s fairly equal under there height wise.

If they raised the foot area about an inch equal to the middle hump, the entire back could be flat.

 

Heck it's not even towing - go down a rough dirt road with a little speed. Do it in a 4500 lb truck with soft suspension and it makes for some white knuckles, while the 5500 lb truck with stiffer suspension is a hell of a lot more confidence inspiring. I have no issue bouncing so much I can't see straight in my work F250 as I know it'll keep tracking straight, yet see a stretch of washboard in an F150 and I'm waiting for the truck to hop over a lane.

 

I heard similar complaints about the new GMs that they took 450 lbs out of.