2022 Tundra

Pay a visit to the GM Trucks 2019+ half ton forum, and you’ll see many posts dealing with issues with the new 6.2. Some guys’ 6.2s have grenaded, some redline every time they start their truck. Bent pushrods. Whining noises (it’s a Chevy; their noises should worry you unlike the 5.7 Toyota’s ticks and diesel noises). It’s recommended that it’s run on premium fuel. 87 takes a performance toll. And yes it does have cylinder deactivation.

Really fun to drive. I was set on a 6.2L Silverado until I spent time at the forums. I just don’t trust it over the long term. That’s why I chose a Tundra.

 

Agree about the conditioning part. Growing up I remember people would get a new GM car from one of the manufacturers, and the common refrain was always "it will be great, I just have to get the bugs worked out". I thought the same thing until my first Toyota, a 2004 Tacoma 5 speed manual. There were no bugs.

 

Seems like any time I read about other trucks a common item is "had a transmission rebuild at 100k miles." It's considered totally normal, practically a wear item.

I've never needed transmission work over decades of driving Honda/Toyota vehicles. Granted I've only been towing for about 10 years, all those with a Tundra and with weights less than 10k. Maybe the larger loads that HD trucks pull would imply more strain, but then again I'd expect those HD trucks to have a tranny to match.

 

Wow I didn’t know that. And what sucks is that Toyota has nothing in the HD class, which means keeping your fingers crossed you got a good truck from one of the big 3.

 

in general I don't disagree but a few notes.

Ram trans problems are gone now that they have ZF, mine was awesome (ZF8). The others also make a tons of trucks that are fine, when looking at on-line forums you're going to see more problems than the entire production run tends to have since when you have a problem you come to a forum to try and get help. I agree that on the average the tundra "should" be more reliable, but the others are not to the point where they cannot even be considered.

for example, I just spent a week without my truck while they tried to fix the fuel pump and ECU, it wouldn't start. My ram started ever time I ever hit the button the entire time I had it, does that mean that the tundra is more reliable?

the other side of all this Toyota doesn't have this or that, is that the while everyone keeps saying they aren't adding things "in the name of reliability", they keep rising the damn price without any problems.

this next tundra platinum or whatever its called I bet will be 60K, so it better have some storage, not mismatched materials (the inside of a tundra platinum is a joke for over 50K truck, its a patchwork of materials), heated steering wheel, better ride, better payload, stock audio system that doesn't suck a dick a mile long, better MPG, more HP, more torque are just a few examples.

we (tundra dudes), are just due for a next gen tundra, Toyota milked this one for long enough while raising the price every year. I am speaking more to the top trim trucks, more basic staying basic, I get.

Im excited to see what they have. I would LOVE that on board generator/inverter 7.2Kw that ford has, now that is a great truck feature.

 

IMHO Toyota has ran the current generation of Tundra a very long time but why mess with something that works. And frankly I believe that Toyota targets buyers who are more conservative...not the latest greatest technology features buyers. The cost is naturally going to rise because the price of materials and transportation are getting higher. When you compare other manufacturers you see some more beeps and whistles (slight improvements to driver safety) with little gains in reliability.

The biggest PITA with lifting and modifying Toyota trucks is chasing down little gremlins and finding experienced techs to correct them. That’s the norm with stock trucks from other manufacturers with ZERO modifications. I will take an antiqued over priced Toyota Tundra over a up to date platform. And we really from what I experienced from the higher end domestic pickups is that the only benefit I see is a slightly more comfortable ride (sags much worse than my Tundra with a trailer) leather seats, slightly better mpg’s, and a bigger multimedia screen.

 

I've seen this a ton in a fishing forum I read. People will ask about trucks and you always have one of the domestics talk about how great their truck was and that they only had to replace the water pump, alternator, and transmission and it has 150,000 miles so it's been very reliable. I'm always sitting here thinking, wait a minute, that's doesn't sound reliable to me. A lot of them are even ok with major repairs as long as they are done under warranty. I'm sorry, but even if it is under warranty, I don't want to be without my truck for a month because the transmission crapped out. I asked one time what reliable meant to many of them and got answers all over the board. Anything from major fixes that were done under warranty, to a vehicle that lasts for 100,000 miles. Most are happy if their truck lasts for the 3 years they own it or lease it before trading it in. My idea of reliability is minimum 200,000 miles without any major issues. So far my Tacoma went 180,000 with nothing, but brakes, tires, and batteries, and my Tundra is at 70,000 with a battery and tires. Brakes batteries and tires are wear items, not water pumps, alternators, and transmissions.

 

The 6.2 definitely has cylinder deactivation, though it's a different system than the AFM as of 2019.

 

I dare you to try towing a big trailer with a truck that weighs less than 5000 lbs. Let us know how that goes for you.

 

Toyota is definitely best at this but they're not they only ones who can make quality vehicles. My dad kept his 1989 Suzuki Swift and his 1993 Mazda MPV for about 15 years each with minimal work.
I think Mazda lost their way in terms of quality for a while around the early 2000s (especially when they were partnered with Ford) but they seem to be getting better these days. I would also say Honda was on par with Toyota until maybe 5 years ago.

 

Weren’t the price increases pretty minor for the most part? I’d be curious how much of that is just due to inflation and keeping pace with the rising costs of materials.

They have pocketed a LOT of money since deleting that trans cooler in 2019 though.

 

Famous for lifter failure ?
It’s less than 5% of Hemis that experience lifter failure . However there’s more than a million of them on the road so that would equate to just under 50,000 of them .

 

I get it, I understand the "if it's not broke don't fix it deal".

but even that has its limits and IMO and for my money, I'm at that limit. At some point you have to make improvements, it can't go on forever. If this new tundra is nothing worth a shit, I will not be buying a 2021 current tundra, I'll just move on to something else, its not that big of a deal.

that's totally just for me though, I get the other side of the argument and don't fault it.

Im just ready at this stage of the game to have some storage, a smarter more user friendly truck (like don't put all the damn button low on the dash behind the steering wheel so I have to bend all over looking for a non light switch). I want a little better ride that I don't have to carry around of bunch of sandbags to not get my teeth rattled loose with axle hop or bed bounce in this shitty Chicago roads. Since the truck is north of 50K, I want better materials and not this hodge podge of materials and colors (there must be 8 different blacks in my truck). While Im not a huge MPG person, I get 12 all the time, so something a little better would be ok, although MPG is not a huge one for me, but If Im going to get 12, I want more HP and Torque while Im getting 12.

Like I said though, most of what I say is from the top trim level view point, you pay way more, so you should get way more, Toyota is due for the better interior materials, better layout and design, better storage, some things to help make working and living with the truck easier, etc.

 

Whole heartedly agree with this. It is laughable that it took until 2020 for the Tundra to get things like CarPlay, push button start, and proximity entry to go along with the list of items the truck should have.

Still ridiculous that it doesn’t have flat storage under the rear seats, no heated steering wheel, more than one USB port, quick fill gas cap, etc.

I love how reliable these trucks are, and I’ve on my 3rd Tundra (after two Tacomas). However, these are all things that Toyota has offered in other vehicles for well over a decade, so you can’t tell me they would negatively impact reliability.

 

I think you did that backwards. Shouldn't you tell us how many have failed then calculate what percentage that is? Where did the 5% statistic come from?

 

ya that was a bit of a stretch.

they were famous for trans sucking forever, now that was famous. but that ended when they gave up and just bought the ZF

 

Agreed on all points. I mean, statistically, yes, Tundras ARE more reliable; but of course that doesn't mean all of them are. Similarly, not every F150/Sierra/Silverado/Ram is a huge pile of trash; many of them run just fine.

That particular one? No; but statistically, acorss the board, are Tundras more reliable? Yep.

Well yeah, and I don't disagree with any of that. In comparison, if I ride in my friend's Ram, the ride is somewhat nicer; and there are definitely more creature comforts. Additionally, you bet I'd like more MPG, HP and torque, and would like a bit better payload. On the other hand, as with anything in life, there are tradeoffs. For example, my friend has a 2014 Tundra. It has very close to the same payload/tow rating as my 2013 F150 had. However, his Tundra pulls trailers/the odd camper TONS easier than my F150 did, and it wasn't just due to gearing. It flat handled better. The newer F150s can easily pull more than my Tundra can, but even friends who own them will tell me that they wouldn't pull anything close to the limit at all because they had to reduce the weight of the truck to get the tow limits they do, which means the truck gets batted around more in high winds and the like.

In general my post was kind of geared towards what I'd call 'one-issue truck buyers.' If a truck is reliable, can handle what you're buying it for, has excellent dealer support....but it doesn't have quite as many features, neither that manufacture nor that truck are 'crap' solely because of a lack of features, just like Ram aren't complete crap because the one I owned 15 years ago was crap. (In fact, statistically, I believe Ram is more reliable than Ford now.)

 

My truck has 3 USB ports...

 

Ditto.

 

Is that with the new 2020’s? My 18 Platinum just has one on the dash. Then has a 12v in the center console, and another 12v on the back of the center console for the rear (which I swapped to a dual USB when I did the wireless charging center console mod).

 

I have 6 + 4 USB C’s lol. But who really cares ?

I seriously hope Toyota puts out a serious contender to the big 3 because then the big 3 will put more in theirs . Competition is great .

 

Must be. Mine's got 3 under the dash, same location as the accessory port (aka non-cigarette lighter). One's dedicated to Entune, the other two are for charging.

 

My ‘21 has 3 USB ports as well. Only one of them works for CarPlay. And the other two are the ultra slow-charging 2.1A ports. I don’t even bother with those. I may try modding them for higher current/faster charging.

And yeah, that hump under my rear seat is puzzling to me as well. I read that Toyota didn’t add the storage under the rear seat in the Crewmax because consumer feedback told them that Crewmax drivers value the extra floor space when the rear seats are up.
THEN WHY ISN’T THE FLOOR FLAT ALL THE WAY BACK???

 

Yeah, that one makes no sense to me. I mean, it's not that big a deal to me, as compared to my previous truck....but I have absolutely no clue why they couldn't just make it flat. *head scratch*

 

I have the two 12Vs (or maybe 3? Can't remember now). The rear one actually is handy for me personally because the cord on my little air compressor is too short to reach the rear tires from the front plug.

 

When am I ever going to need to plug in 10 things simultaneously? Maybe people should leave their devices at home and just drive.

 

It works out fine for most people. You have to remember that Ford alone pumps out almost 6x as many F150's a year as Toyota does Tundras. So does GM and Ram maybe 4-5x. For every 1 person having an issue with a Tundra, there are 16+ people having issues with one of those other trucks, even if the reliability was exactly the same. And i don't think I ever claimed it was the same before you went on this rant. I simply said the other trucks are very modern and have progressed significantly compared to the tundra. Its not as simple as a 42" tv in the dash and some USB plugs as was alluded too by other posters.

Chain tensioners were not the issue on the original Ecoboost. Ford mistakenly assumed that people were going to use their trucks as, well, trucks. When people started using them as grocery getters they were not working them hard and were not getting them hot, ever. This resulted in fuel dilution issues which stretched the timing chains beyond the point that the cam phasers could compensate. They resolved a lot of this issue with updates to the PCV system to better vent the crank case under low load conditions, and the chain was updated. The Ecoboosts that have the least problems with this are oddly the ones that get worked the most. There are guys with 300-400k miles that never touched their chains because they towed and worked their trucks.

The 2nd gen 3.5 Ecoboost(2017+) with the cam phaser issues were a straight up design flaw. The timing chains are no longer an issue, but the phasers themselves were. They have since updated the design. Almost all of the people who had issues were covered under warranty because they usually popped up pretty early on, well before the warranty expired. I believe some 2019 and all 2020's came with the updated phasers right from the factory.

Not one of those issues caused a catastrophic engine failure and guys have driven on stretched timing chains for literally 50k+ miles waiting for it to get bad enough to actually need to change the chain.

And the 2.7L Ecoboost has been very reliable, is barely more expensive than the base V6, gets REALLY good gas mileage, and will out tow most V8's including the tundra. For the average half ton truck user, the 2.7L is probably the best motor you could buy.

And the GM 6.2L does have AFM and now DFM. The engine is almost exactly the same as the 5.3L except for the bore size.

Ram's ZF trans they have had since 2013 is pretty damn good. And not sure on the death wobble. I have heard of it thrown around many times on the internet, and my understanding was this was from when they had solid axles. The Ram 1500 has not had a solid axle since, what, 2001? We are talking about half tons from the last decade, right?

My parents Honda CR-V needed a transmission well before 200k. And the brake calipers would continuously seize and wear the pads and rotors out. They told my dad it was normal to have to replace the brakes on a car with 20k miles and would not cover it. Oh yeah, and then there was the shift cable issue that would cause the transmission to get stuck in park. That caused my mom to be stranded multiple times and have to call a tow truck. That car was a flaming pile of crap and so was Honda's response.

The Ford and Ram transmissions have been pretty bulletproof. The ZF8 in the rams is fantastic, its tuned to perfection. The 6R80 in the F150 and now the 10R80 are very stout. Of course there is one here or there that has an issue when you pump out 500,000 of them a year.

The GM 8 speed was a notorious pile of crap. Even the GM people avoid them. The 6L80 and now the 10L80(which is shared with Ford) are/were both solid.

I am not sure who you are talking to that is replacing transmissions at 100k, but that certainly is not the norm. Maybe its the GM folks that were unfortunate enough to get the 8 speed?

Agree'd. The ZF8 trans in the ram is awesome. I was traveling a lot for work and rented cars all the time. I have had the opportunity to drive most of the current trucks and the Ram ZF8 is so sweet. I have also driven a F150 4x4 with the 2.7 and 10 speed and that was also really nice. That same 2.7 also hit 25 mpg leaving the rental car center in Charlotte, driving a few miles in stop lights, and then driving 30 miles to my hotel. 25 mpg in a half ton truck doing 70 mph!

And to your point, Ford and GM each make 6x as many F150/1500's as Toyota does Tundras. Ram makes a little less but I think its probably 4-5x. Even if the reliability of all the brands was exactly the same you would still get 6x as many issues with any of those other brands simply by sheer volume. I don't pretend to think that they are as reliable as Toyota but they also do other things extremely well. Its a compromise. I don't drive my Ford thinking its going to blow up and leave me on the side of the road. Not even close and I have had my Ecoboost tuned making 30-40 hp and 100+ ft-lb more than stock all while towing my travel trailer around the Rockies is some insanely harsh conditions.

Yup. Toyota is milking the Tundra for all its worth. Its great that its reliable, it should be. Although, for having not updated the thing in 15 years you would think they would fix the cam tower, valve cover leak, valley cover coolant leak and valve springs breaking. None of those are small jobs.

I seriously hope Toyota comes out with a 3.5L twin turbo with a 10 speed. I really do. I think they will do a solid job of it and it will be a great setup. Someone needs to bring out an engine to compete with the Ecoboost. GM's half assed attempt with the 2.7L sounded good on paper but ultimately seems to have been a let down and is eclipsed by the 3.0 Duramax.

 

It’s on the short list of things I’m going to tackle in my quest to build it like I wish it had come from the factory.

I want to make it look OEM. So far I’m only in the ideas stage. If I can remove that hump and padding and keep the rear seats secured, I’ll have to get some sound treatment and some matching carpet. I doubt I’ll be able to truly flatten the OEM carpet that is molded for that hump. So if I need to add carpet to the rear, I’ll do it far enough forward that the seam is under my Husky liners. I’ll also be taking a heat gun to those liners to get them to lie flat on the new floor. It’s going to be pretty involved, but I plan on giving it a shot.

The end goal is to be able to add the underseat storage from a DC and make it look totally OEM. One thing that would kill this idea is if the CM cab floor is substantially different from the DC.

 

I respect you for being at your limit and you bring up some points that I agree with.

But being how difficult it is to keep a new Tundra on a lot these days I don’t feel that Toyota will ever drastically upgrade it. Same goes for the 4Runner. Toyota has always been extremely slow to change things. And not that I have any serious experience with the 3rd Tacoma but look at at all the bad press from owners/forums received. I would not be so quick to change either...

My brother works for a company that has many, less than 3 year old, Fords, Chevys, and Rams pickups. He is forever telling he has to switch trucks because one broke down. It’s down right comical for the prices paid for these trucks. Blown turbos, blow transmissions, death wobbles etc etc. Moral of the story is that I don’t believe Toyota wants the headaches or the rep of these guys. They are not going down that rabbit hole and the know what they produce with likely sell without massive overstock. Toyota is who they are and unfortunately you have to take it or leave it (not meant to be snarky towards you BreathingBorla).

 

Check out Dashboard Light.

Toyota's rating is based on 270k inspected Toyotas.
Ford’s rating is based on 290k inspected Fords.

They didn’t just find more Fords with issues because there are more Fords out there. The ratings are based on issues per X number of vehicles produced. Yes, Ford makes a few more vehicles (EDIT: 2.284M vehicles vs 2.085M for the US market). But the % of issues they have per number of vehicles made is extremely high compared to Toyota. The idea that “Toyota has fewer issues because they make fewer trucks” is totally bunk.