2022 Tundra

I see, was only looking at the RAM HD’s previously.

 

I'm intrigued to see the New Tundra for Toyota's sake, and just because I am a moto nut, but I will be sticking with my 2017 TRD PRO DC in Cement. The first truck I've owned, or likely ever will. LOVE this thing more and more every time I drive it.

 

I would love to pick your brain on manufacturing efficiency. I am so curious about every aspect of TPS. It’s mind blowing to me that nobody, even GM who shared a plant with Toyota, has made it work. in a world of outsourcing Toyota is highly vertically integrated (and incredibly successful at it) when all other manufactures have failed.

 

Facts wouldn't help with people who only know what they ASSume. This mindset is the same as a friend of mine who stated how he'd never buy a fori

Slut!

 

In general I would agree about Japanese quality but realize they have their problems as well. I bought a brand new Japanese built 2017 5th gen 4Runner and mechanically the truck was solid especially having as many city commuting mile as it did. However it had severe rust in all the door jams, above the windshield, around the rear gate, and on the exterior of the doors. I washed it once a month and would have it waxed quite often. I sold it at 2 1/2 years old because I did not want a vehicle that was painted so many times (Toyota and the dealership were great about it). The final straw was the cab had to be removed from the frame to properly fix the rust on the gate . I had zero faith in long term reliability.

I know my case isn’t the norm but I am willing to bet mine isn’t going to be the only 2017 with issues. And some poor person bought it the Carolinas for almost what I paid new. The truck had to be sent right out to auction.

 

One of the reasons why the turbos fail and have a bad rap is because people don’t know how to operate them . They think they just drive it like a N/A engine and that’s just not the case . With a turbo one of the most important things to do with them is when you park to let it idle for a minute or two to let the turbos cool down . When you just shut the engine off like normal they get heat soaked which causes failure .Hopefully Toyota sales people will tell consumers that as oppose to other manufactures who say just to drive them like normal .

There’s a guy at work that has a turbo car that has had them replaced 3 times now under warranty and no it’s not a domestic .

 

Everything I have read is that unless you are driving it hard like racing that it is not necessary to idle it and let it cool down. Regular driving doesn't get it hot enough and then typically before you park, you already have a couple minutes of slow driving that is plenty to cool them down. Pulling into the parking lot and driving slowly for a minute or two to find your parking spot is more than enough to cool it down. Maybe if you are pulling a heavy load and come to stop, you might want to idle for a minute.

 

Yes, turbo timers should be mandatory on every turbo vehicle. I added them to every diesel I owned. Put the truck in park, turn the key off, lock the truck and walk away while it is still running. Shuts off on it's own when the EGT gets to a safe temp. A turbo timer is an option on the Fords which irritates me about Ford. Stuff that should be mandatory for the price is an option.

 

Not with all turbos. Subaru added cooling to the turbo on the new 2.0 engine used in the WRX, and they stated that you don't have to cool them down the same way. With Toyota's previous collaborations with Subaru, I would hope they might do something similar.

 

Or the manufacturer could just add on a turbo timer to make the design more robust?

 

I agree with you 100% but why haven’t they done it ? You would think it would cost less than the warranty claims for turbos .
Of the 2 guys at work with the same engine the one comes in , parks , shuts the engine off and goes in .
Guy #2 comes in , parks , idles for a couple minutes then goes in .
#1 has had his turbo replaced under warranty 3 times already .
#2 has had his for 3 years with no problems .

 

The bells and whistles are the large LCD, tons of cameras, USB ports, heated and cooled seats. The thing is, they are cheap "foreign made" <-- you can guess where it is, stuff, you can easily retrofit from what you would find on eBay, Amazon, and all the Alib... sites.

It tricks the herd mentality to believe that is is high technology.

LCD panels are dirt cheap, any size.

I rather buy from the Japanese since they have good relations with the U.S.

U.S. and Italian companies all sold out to "foreign money", just like Bay-jing B, or Chna B.

 

So trucks that can parallel park themselves, practically drive themselves ( literally ) .
Big screens that can tell you where the best gas prices are and how to get there .
What movies are playing at the nearest cinemas .
That’s not technology ?

 

This is actually one of the things I miss most about my 2012 4runner. All five windows were auto up/down. It was awesome for rapid cooling during the summer.

 

Those "tech" have been around for over a decade.

Automobile is high technology by your definition.

There is nothing new nor innovation, which they claim otherwise.

 

Most of the modern turbos have a water jacket around the bearing housing that helps with the coking of oil, but for best longevity, letting the oil warm up, and turbo to cool down, plus regular oil change intervals are essential if the car has a turbo and you want it to last.

 

Sooo the Tundra can do all that and more for over a decade ??? I wasn’t aware of that .

 

Need a photoshop of the rendered truck in different colors.

 

Check out the books The Toyota Way, and Gemba Kaizen. The have great insights into the TPS principles.

 

I have . I haven’t ever used them, or been personally invested in them so my knowledge is strictly academic.

 

Almost all modern turbo engines have liquid cooled turbos, both gasoline and diesel. Letting them cool down is not necessary anymore unless maybe you just pulled a trailer up a massive grade and slammed on your brakes and came to an immediate stop.

Not only that, but the liquid cooling loop is designed to use convection to continue to pass coolant through the turbo even after the engine is off and water pump has stopped so it continues to be cooled.

turbo timers were needed when the turbos were not liquid cooled and were only oil cooled. If you shut it off when the turbo was still super hot you could coke the oil in the bearings which would kill the bearings. It was not that long ago that there were still turbos without liquid cooling, I had a 2006 Jeep Liberty diesel that had an oil cooled turbo.

Last but not least, oils are vastly better than even 20 years ago. Use a quality synthetic oil and change it often enough and you won’t have issues with the turbos. My guess is that your coworker, who has gone through 3 turbos, is probably not making the best maintenance decision or has an underlying issue with his car that has gone undiagnosed(poor oil pressure, clogged screen in his turbo oil feed line etc.

 

there is no way they won’t. I doubt there are many modern cars that don’t have liquid cooled turbos.

Both ecoboost F150 motors have them and idling is not an issue on those, even towing. By the time you come to a stop from freeway speeds the turbos are already cooled down by the gallons of coolant that passed through them in that time.

the old subarus did have turbo issues but was not related to cool down. It was because they had a mesh screen in the oil feed line going to the turbo and they would plug up, starving the turbo bearings of oil.

 

This.

 

It’s a little more than just some screens and USB ports. GM and Ford have both continuously updated their power trains and chassis. Ram is the only one besides Toyota that is still using an engine from the early 2000’s but even they have added things like cylinder shutoff.

Ford and gm both producing crew cab 4x4 trucks under 5000 lbs now through weight reduction tech. Ram is close but slightly heavier. Ram is running a 5 link suspension in the rear that rides and handles superbly.

The USB ports and butt massagers are just the bonus fluff you get on the top trim models, but a base XL f150 is a very modern vehicle in many ways.

 

And how’s that worked out? The 5.3 from Chevy has been terrible due to the AFM and is notorious for lifter issues. Ford had a great v8 with the 5.0, but after tweaking it they’re having bad oil consumption issues with it. The ecoboost has had timing chain tensioner issues for a long time among other issues. Hemi engines are famous for lifter failure as well. The only half ton engine worth a shit is the Chevy 6.2 and I think it’s the last remaining v8 along with the tundra to not have cylinder deactivation.

 

The sad thing is that everyone should be able to make it work. The Toyota system is not a secret. Others just decide not to do it because it takes extra effort. The public has accepted over the years that things will break - you take it to the dealer and they fix it. Easy. That's just the way it works and they are okay with it. My co-workers who drive other brands are amazed (or don't believe me) when I tell them that I had my Tacoma for 16 years and did not spend one penny on repairs. It's a foreign concept to them because they are used to "mechanical things are going to break at some point; that's just how it works". They accept that. GM, Ford, Chrysler etc. get to fix it and make money on the repairs and selling the parts, so the clients are happy and and the manufacturers are happy; so why change anything....Fortunately Toyota decided that it was not good enough, and they are willing to spend that extra effort. That's why they are now the largest auto manufacturer in the world. It paid off for Toyota, the others missed out.

 

I think I used to be like your coworkers. As I read your post I was thinking "Well I had an '05 Dodge Stratus, and that was a great car for 12 years." Then I really stopped and thought on it, and I had an extended warranty that covered the replacement of the entire rack and pinion steering because of defective metal quality that cracked. I was without my car for several days, and if I hadn't ponied up for that extended warranty when I bought it... well lets just say it would have been expensive. Still, that was the only thing outside normal wear items that ever went wrong on that car. One major expense over the course of 12 years isn't terrible to my brain, and I have to wonder if it's because of it just being accepted like you say.

 

That's exactly it - we are conditioned to think it is okay. One co-worker had an ugly-ass Pontiac Aztec for a few years, then traded it for another. She said she did it because the first one was so reliable; in the few years she had it she only had to replace the transmission once and had work on the brakes calipers done twice, and few other small things - that's it; very reliable. I don't know what she had before the Aztec, but she was conditioned to think that those repairs were minor and normal. She is one of those who did not believe me when I told her about my Tacoma, which I had for about 10 or 11 years at the time, with zero repairs.

 

Yeah, no. A transmission isn't minor. The only reason I think I forget about the steering rack is because I only had to pay the deductible on the warranty. I was pissed about that because the finance guy lied about it. Oh, and I forgot that the CD player quit working after 3 years too. Never did fix/repair that. Replaced the battery and the alternator, but I think that was it.

 

This, all day long this. I feel like the vast majority of people who complain about Toyota not having features or better towing or the like have spent almost NO time on other forums. I owned an F150 before my Tundra, and a Ram before that....and the **VAST** majority of posts on their forums is about this or that issue they had - and we're not talking small stuff. Ford had tons of timing chain issues on their Ecoboost, and misformed cylinders on their 5.0's, as well as serious oil consumption issues due to the 5.0L tweak in 2018 (I think it was). Two of the BEST engines they had were the older 3.7L V6 and the 6.2L V8 on the F150, and they discontinued them. They've also had more than a few issues with their 2.7L, though not as many. There's a reason that Ford's stock is in the crapper.

Ram has had transmission or serious media system issues, or a death wobble, or a truck that caught fire (as did two of my friends' trucks). GMC/Silverado has almost always had oil issues related to AFM, and I could go on.

I see *SO* many posts from people that point out how much better the competition is at ___ than Toyota is. I totally get it; believe me, it'd be 'nice' to know I could tow a bit more, or to have a bit more power, or to have a bit nicer interior, etc. BUT for me, I don't care HOW nice or plentiful the features are; and I don't care HOW well a truck tows. If the engine/transmission craters, or the dealership won't support it (as they didn't with about 1/2 the issues my F150 had), it's worthless.

Thus the reason a new truck choice for me came down to either a 6.2L GMC, or a Tundra....and the Tundra was easily thousands less, plus the dealership has a far better reputation.