Pro Comp Lift with SPC Adjustable UCAs

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Tl;dr...

I started this thread with a Pro Comp lift and burned out stock UCAs. I needed to replace them but didn't want to go with OEM Toyota ones. I have now replaced the stock arms with SPC adjustable ones and my alignment numbers look good...not to mention that the ride is much improved. ****

Feel free to follow along...

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Bought my '11 Tundra CrewMax last year with (what I believe is) a Pro Comp Stage II 6" lift.

My driver's side UCA started squeaking, which was annoying enough...and now it's affecting handling. Now, I can see that it looks like an entire bushing is missing/degraded...so, I figured why not replace both the UCAs with something more beefy than stock.

I've been looking at these (https://jbaoffroad.com/jba-hd-hc-upper-a-arms-for-2007-toyota-tundra-2wd-4wd.html), but JBA said that they are only good for lifts that have at least 1" of added lift.

Pro Comp stated that their kits only will work with OEM UCAs (otherwise you'll get a lot of camber).

However, my mechanic, at one time, stated that my lift had been stretched an extra 1" or so (I think?). He also said that UCAs designed for 0-3" lifts should be fine on my application (but this is something that I asked him weeks after he had last worked on my truck, so...grain of salt and all of that is why I'm trying to confirm).

So...my question is...

Does my Pro Comp Stage II have the (or any?) added height to run the JBA UCAs?

Forgive my ignorance, my last truck only had a key level, and my truck before that didn't have a lift (I'm slowly moving up, lol).

 

The unsightly dirtiness of everything was pre-purchase...it's on my list of things to remedy (at some point).

Let me know if I can provide any additional info.

Additionally:

Running 37x13s on 9.5x18 with no rubbing (had a small amount of body chop done at the rear of the front wheel wells).

Trying to learn as much as I can about what's been done to the truck previously.

Thanks, y'all.

 

I too, have a Pro Comp 6" lift on my Tundra. I too, asked the exact same questions regarding after market UCA's. I spoke to a Pro Comp tech whom stated the same thing that you were told: "we designed this kit to run with OEM UCA's. Aftermarket will screw up the caster". I then spoke to a tech at www.liftkits4less.com whom stated that I could run the Icon billet UCA's with the kit as they are "FULLY ADJUSTABLE", but probably not any of the tubular type UCA's as they are not "fully adjustable". I then spoke to a rep over at Icon and he too confirmed that only the billet fully adjustables will work with this lift kit.

https://www.iconvehicledynamics.com/accessory/14677/icon-accessories-07-up-tundra-billet-uca-dj-kit/

Anyway, I was not prepared to drop to drop $1,400.00 at the time, so I simply stayed with OEM. Now, I am planning on doing quite a bit more off-roading and overlanding once this covid bs is over with, so I am probably going to upgrade within the next year.

 

Thanks for the corroboration! Nice to know I'm not going crazy. There's no way the wife would let me justify Icons right now, since I just, finally, upgraded to a 65" OLED TV...and also put new wheels and tires on a month or two ago. It's too cold outside to have to sleep in the doghouse.

Also, if the Icons would work...I'm guessing any adjustable (like SPC) might work? I've read so many comments (and the same from my mech.) that so many shops today won't even touch adjustable UCAs, let alone have the knowledge/skill to dial them in correctly. I don't have a great 4x4 shop that can do the alignment that I really trust.

Do your back blocks looks the same as mine? Any chance you could post a pic?

It would really help if I knew exactly what I have different from the Stage 2 kit (if anything). I'd like to know what an off-the-rack Stage 2 6" for gen 2 Tundras looks like.

 

Any adjustable UCA should work. They are adjustable so that’s a plus crime OeM. SPC is a great option at a great price point

 

If I remember correctly, SPC's are only adjustable for camber. But, this is exactly a question for Pro Comp. Ask them FIRST! I had SPC's on my 4Runner, to be honest, they do not seem much better than OEM UCA's as far as strength is concerned and they look no better.

Regarding your Stage II kit: the Pro Comp adjustable coilovers are the only difference between stage II and stage I. Stage I comes with a shock cartridge and top spacer to be used with the OEM coils. VERY inferior to the Stage II coilovers. Otherwise, the two kits are the same.

Stage II for 2011 Tundra: https://www.procompusa.com/suspension-product-details.aspx?pt=3533&pl=1808&pqq=2281&pqa=13199

Regarding your leaf spring lift blocks: mine look pretty much the same, but a shiny, stainless color. My truck is a 2018 and the kit is only about a year and a half old, so clean with no rust. It's dark and rainy here, in SE Texas at the moment, but I can get a pic tomorrow.

 

The guy at JBA said as long as I'm an inch over stock geometry (I think that was what he was saying) the 0-3" HD ones from them would work. Just not if I'm stock geometry.

Just trying to figure out if I fall into that category. The rear makes me think I am (the blocks/leaves) but the front just has the coilovers adjusted as shown above (Pro Comp said out of the box they come with no threads exposed at the top).

Would it make sense if someone added an extra one-inch block in the rear (in addition to the Pro Comp kit), and then adjusted the coilovers to raise the front to be even with the rear? But I wouldn't think that the small amount which the coilovers are raised (about 1/4" of exposed thread) would be enough to compensate for leveling AND an extra block in the back.

 

Yes, it is possible that somebody put larger blocks in back, but looking at your pic, I am doubting it. Again, I will take a pic tomorrow and post it. Regardless, do not take the word of the guy at JBA. Ask Pro Comp.

 

The guy at Pro Comp basically said OEM UCAs or your caster is gonna be jacked. He didn't mention going with Icons. I even asked the guy "are there any aftermarket UCAs, made in a more sturdy manner, that use stock geometry?" and he said "Nope."

Much appreciated on the pic - will stay tuned.

I find it hard to believe that there's such a dearth of "heavy-duty" OEM style UCAs...

So these UCAs that state they are for "0 - x inches of lift" ...really, they are *not* for 0 inches of lift?

Do you know of any measurements that I can take to determine what my angles are vs. what stock are? Might be an easier way to make a determination.

 

OK, here's the deal: The UCA's that you are looking at (JBA or SPC's) are designed to be adjustable for camber only. They have a preset caster designed to correct the caster offset by 1 to 3" lift kits. Not to mention SPC's are not that tough. I had them on my 4Runner, and I would not risk them with heavy duty off roading. The Icon billet UCA's are designed so that you can adjust that caster back to OEM specs, which the JBA's and SPC's are incapable of doing. This is the issue that I ran into when I was researching this topic. When you say "a dearth of OEM style UCA's", I have little to no response except to say, I'm not sure. I can say that when I looked for heavy duty UCA's that were capable of adjusting the caster back to OEM, I think that I only found two or three that were capable: Icon, Camburg and Mazzulla. But, they were all about the same price ($1,300 to $1,400). Not trying to make your life difficult, just trying to help. But hey, do not take my word for it.

 

No sir, I most definitely appreciate the input.

I just talked to my mechanic, and he said that the smaller 1" block on the bottom (rear) is from a 1/2 ton Chevy. My understanding is that the Pro Comp 6" kit comes with 4" blocks...so, not sure why I have a 3" block and a 1" Chevy block. The front coilovers are cranked up just 1/4" it looks like, but I'm also running 37s. From all of this, I guess it seems like I'm running a "standard" Pro Comp 6" kit...just getting there with a combo of 1" and 3" blocks instead of a single 4", and tweaking the front coilovers to get things nice and even.

Does that sound right?

If that's the case, then it comports with my alignment getting to generally decent numbers (I don't have the sheet in front of me, but I can get it) - and the assumption that I've maintained rather stock geometry.

That being said, it sounds like the JBAs are indeed out. I'm going to search for a higher quality OEM style, and keep the more pricey adjustables in mind, if that ends up needing to be the case (I still don't know of any shops that I would be comfortable with doing adjustments to those, let alone any that would do it/not charge me an arm and a leg).

>> EDIT: Pro Comp confirmed that the 6" Stage 2 has a 3" block and a 1" add-a-leaf.

How many leaves are stock on the 2nd Gen CrewMax 4x4? 3 or 4?

From looking at the Toyota parts diagram, it looks like 3.

If it's 3, then it looks like I do have the add-a-leaf, plus the extra block. Which means I'm at a 6+1" lift...and maybe I *can* use the JBAs?

 

Both the Stage 1 and Stage 2 kits are identical, EXCEPT for the front coil-overs and rear shocks. Your kit should have the diff drop bracket that requires the frame crossmember being cut, taller spindles, 3" rear lift blocks, add-a-leafs, MX2.75 coilovers, as well as many other parts. And I did confirm that my leaf spring lift blocks are indeed 3".

My suspicion with your kit is that the previous owner added the 1" block to level the vehicle. You see, the Pro Comp 6" lift kit (both Stage 1 and Stage 2 kits and both gens of Tundras), when installed and for reasons unknown, actually makes Tundras look higher in the front than the back, thus giving the appearance of a reverse rake. After I had my Pro Comp kit installed, my truck sat 3/4" higher in the front, than in the back which drove me NUTS!! So, instead of raising the rear an inch (which most people do with longer shackles), I opted the replace the front coilovers with some from Rough Country (as I already knew from others on Tundras.com), that the Rough Country coilovers would drop the front by about 3/4". And now my truck is level which makes me very happy.

Regarding your question of using the JBA UCA's due to a possible 6" + 1" lift, I'm not sure where you are getting that. You might be at +1" in the rear, but not up front.

Anyway, here is a pic of one of my rear leaf spring lift blocks (but remember, that my Tundra is a 3rd gen:

 

JBA is designed to correct caster. SPC has adjustable caster and camber capabilities. OP, SPC would most likely be a budget friendly option that would fit your needs. However, a bit more caster never hurts. The SPC UCAs are easy to dial in without an overly knowledgeable shop. You can do the majority of the work in your garage with a level and piece of angle iron. The JBA is easier still as all the camber adjustments come from the lower control arm plus what is built in to the UCA (many will correct caster, not camber). When replacing the UCA most likely this will be achieved through adjustment of LCA.

 

Thank you, good sir.

Re: What I was getting at, yes, you're right - I was thinking that, since the coilovers are raised slightly, that it might be enough to justify the JBA? My guess is that the couple threads that I have exposed (in the first post) would not be enough...?

Anyway, I dug up my last two alignment reports.

The report without the suspension diagram was the first time that I had the truck aligned. This was after having the coilover mounts replaced (they were broken), as well as the rear shocks.

The report with the diagram is from a couple of months back, before driving back and forth between FL and KY, during which I noticed the squeak from the front left UCA turn into a squeek and very noticeable ride issues that (from what I've read) are indicative of a bad UCA.

 

How much caster is too much? I know it's all preference and relative but in your opinion...

Also, without adjusting the LCA, do you have an idea of how much caster JBA adds? Also, does that mean it would not have an effect on the camber numbers?

As you can see from my alignment figs above, my caster numbers seem to be in a good zone... I feel like I've read that people try to shoot for around 3 degrees (not sure if 2 degrees is preferable, though). My camber also seems to be in the good zone.

So, if the JBA ones don't affect camber (and my camber is in the green zone), and say, JBA add one or two degrees...and that additional angle would be PREFERABLE to two degrees...that's great. However, please dispute any of the links in that thought-chain bc I'm just spitballing out loud.

 

Side note - I just found a shop in the neighboring town (about 30 minutes away) that said (re: the adjustable UCA) "you ain't scaring me, yet - we handle all the weird sh*t"....so at least I've found *one* shop somewhat near me that is willing (and from the alignment facilities he has - which are supposedly the best in town) to handle it, that opens up adjustable as an option, at least.

Any ballparks on the extra time that the adjustable add to an alignment? Also, once they are dialed in, is there much need on future alignments to mess with them (assuming that you can pull everything else back into alignment with a standard job)? Wondering if the adjustable UCAs (on-truck or off) pull out of geometry - or if they are more-or-less set it and forget it (again, unless something else is majorly out of whack and you need to adjust the UCAs to correct for it)?

 

higher caster numbers will give you a “heavier” steering wheel feel. The positive caster moves the wheel forward in the wheel well and makes steering feel more stable. Generally around 3 degrees is fine. Your numbers on the alignment sheet aren’t bad so your lift is most likely close to stock geometry. You most likely will not be able to achieve too much caster with only replacing the UCAs. I ran almost +5 degrees on my Tacoma (but that was with upper and lower control arms).
As far as JBA caster, I don’t know. I ran SPC for a time on my Tacoma but the ball joints and bushings didn’t seem to hold up. They have upgraded their bushings since then. If you go to their website you can see the built in and adjustable settings.

 

I think I'm leaning toward the adjustable...I'd like to get my caster numbers a little tighter, and I could go for an extra couple of degrees in caster.

So, I'm leaning toward SPC. They are adjustable for caster *and* camber, and they have a reasonable price point. I like that they are still ball joints, so I don't need to worry about the finicky uni-ball. Keep in mind, I'm not out doing really hardcore off-roading.

Total Chaos (regular, not heim): Is there any advantage here to the extra couple hundred dollars? Not talking about the billet ones, as I do understand those are "better."

Icon tubular/delta: Looks like these have built-in caster adjustment, but no camber adjustment? Also, is the quality worth an extra couple of hundred dollars? Moot point if they don't have camber adjustments.

Camburg, Camburg x-joint: Looks like these don't have any adjustments other than what is built-in. Also, uni-ball (not that I'm against them, but the less to go wrong/easier to replace in an emergency the better).

If there are any other adjustable UCAs in the range of 600-900 I'm all ears.

I do note the comments as to SPC's lower durability than some of the other brands, like TC and Icon, but again, I'm not doing 30-foot desert jumps or anything. Moderate off-roading capability and the ability to get out of a pickle if we face an apocalypse is more my speed.

Also, the SPCs are available on Amaz0n, and I'm pretty good at getting them to take things back (if I decide these don't work), unlike a lot of other online shops/ebay.

 

I think you will like the SPCs. They are easy to service and the parts are relatively inexpensive. You could always buy a spare ball joint if you are worried about random failure since you most likely won’t be able to source one off the shelf.

 

Order has been placed. Should be here on Thursday. We will see! Hoping to get these installed and aligned at the end of the week or early next week. I'll follow up.

 

Well, they are on! Just got back from the shop. No real issues getting them on, and they got me back into stock-ish numbers. I mentioned adding more caster, but he recommended against it (but said he would if I wanted to - but I figured I'd give this a shot, since it's more caster than I had, anyway).

How do these numbers look?

It definitely feels better. More glide-y and less jarring.

Turned out it was one of the washers that was missing from my front left UCA, previously.

Notice the *before* toe on the front left...yikes! That was with the janky UCA, though.

 

New numbers look good. You could add more caster the next time you have it aligned, if you want. Most shops will advise against anything above factory specs but that isn’t always “best” once lifted + tires etc. Please give feedback after some use since it’s helpful when others start looking. Thanks for posting your alignment numbers.

 

Thanks! BTW, these SPC UCAs need to have the truck jacked up/on a rack to adjust the caster, right? That's what the mech said. Or is there a reasonable way to get that nut off (lol) without tearing everything out of whack? I was thinking they were adjustable on truck, but I guess that could just mean you don't need to take them off (like with the heim joint ones, maybe?) completely...

He did say I have more room for caster...

Will caster affect ride quality at all as far as bumps/road anomalies, etc? Or is it solely going to change return-to-center/cornering? To a noticeable degree, I mean...I know that technically, everything probably affects everything else to some degree or another, but where would I mainly notice the caster difference?

Also, from what I've read, it looks like I would want to target 5 or 6 degrees? Or is it really "max it out" as much as you can, as long as you don't start creating cross pull/tire rub/throwing off camber?

Edit: Lol...when I mentioned adding more caster, he (in a less than positive way) said it would make it handle more like a racecar and less like a truck. I don't want it to feel like a Tercel, but I would also like to avoid driving a land yacht (except in appearances, of course).

 

The caster can be adjusted while on the truck, but you will have to loosen the ball joint to spindle nut and remove the ball joint to UCA nut. You can loosen the ball joint to UCA nut without messing with the caster or toe but will be able to adjust the camber. Any time you change the setting on the ball joint you will want it aligned. I would drive the truck as it is and see if there is something that you want changed. More caster will give a heavier feel in the steering wheel. There is a limit the the amount of caster that can be achieved with your setup. Each person/truck/suspension will have different settings. If you aren’t rubbing the body mount and steering doesn’t feel loose or “squirrely” I would ride it out for now and make changes the next go around.

 

Thanks for the feedback, as usual. I think that's what I'll do, for now, anyway.

'm going to look at it as...my numbers are pretty close to stock, so it's not like anything is "broken" by having less caster. Taking it back and having more caster added would just be an additional mod I can do to change the handling.

TBH, it's not bad as-is, but not having driven with 6% or 7%, I can't really compare, though (but having driven other vehicles, I can "feel" it in my mind"). Sometimes I can sense a bit of squirrel™...I want to say under heavy acceleration...but I'm guessing that's just bc of the shifting of weight off of the front tires? Also note that I have 13.5" wide tires, so I know those will follow the road anomalies more than others.

BTW, any thoughts on those rear numbers? The mech. said they weren't too bad. I don't think there's really anything "easy/cheap" that can be done to straighten any of those out, is there? There's not really a rear-equivalent, insomuch as tossing it on a rack and tweaking a few bolts...is there?