Petroleum engineers

A question to Petroleum engineers....

My question is regarding the detergent level in gasoline.

I know the difference in between the octane levels. But some sites say regular gas has the same detergent levels as Premium gas. Others say Premium gas has more.

If you are not in the petroleum business, please site a reference. It help separate an opinion from fact.

 

I'm in the industry but don't know for sure as I don't work with gasoline blending directly. I believe it's the same as the detergents are in the additives, which I believe are the same for both premium and regular but I'll see what I can find out.

 

ASTM has a specification for commercial gasoline. It covers chemical limits including required additives.

 

Thank you! There is a post on this site that mentioned Premium has more detergent. I think it was for Shell gasoline. But I can't find it. Thank you for looking into it for us.

 

I've actually seen ads at some of our stations as well saying "use premium for more cleaning" but I'm not sure if those are actually sanctioned by the company since all stations are independently-owned franchises now.

This has been a hot button issue for me since a very biased story on the CBC saying that oil companies are trying to trick people into buying premium. Their "research" included asking a gas jockey at one of those independent stations which grade to put in their old Civic and running a car at 50 kph on a dyno and showing that the car with regular recorded the same amount of horsepower as the car with premium at that fixed speed.

Anyway, I'll try to remember to pull the fuel specs when I'm back at work in August.

 

FYI, the majority of “petroleum engineers” focus on exploration and production of hydrocarbons from the ground. I work in the industry at one of the majors and there is the exact same additive package in every grade of gas.

 

Unless they work downstream, it’s more of a chemical/process engineering question.

 

Yeah most downstream folks I know are Chem E’s or Mechanical

 

Correct. OP, you might want to ask for chemical/ process engineers instead.

 

For brands associated with the Top Tier certification, they must use the same detergent package across all grades of gas.
https://www.toptiergas.com/licensed-brands/

For other brands, who knows.

 

It’s same amount of additives volume. Your engine will run cleaner with premium gas due to higher octane, some brands have no ethanol in premium gas - That’s what I have been told by my distributor.

 

Octane and ethanol have nothing to do with "running clean".

 

There was a member here, @Cubanchem, that worked for Shell. His member name doesn't pop up now when referenced. Maybe he decided trying to educate us was a lost cause. If he said Shell premium grade had more detergent than Shell regular gasoline, then you can believe it. He was clearly an insider, a process engineer or lab technician, because he knew the knock engine tests inside and out.

Like @Cpl_Punishment, I never worked in process engineering or blending, and I also doubt there is typically any difference in detergent additive content from regular grade to premium grade. Reason: Regular engines need detergents just as badly as premium engines. IMO, the higher price for premium is for higher octane number, not additive packages.

 

I am a process engineer working in a refinery. I've just never worked on the blending/ product supply side of the business. I'm interested in these type of questions but to do that job would require being on call all the time, which I have no desire to do any more.
Also, our blending guru who used to answer all my stupid questions retired so I'll have to try to piece things together myself.

 

@Cubanchem was last seen: Dec 21, 2016 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Oh...Yeah...Dang, I was reading posts nearly 4 years old in that thread! But...his info is still just as accurate.

 

This must have been the post I was referring to. I also understand that if Shell premium grade has more detergent than Shell regular gasoline, that may not apply to other brands.

 

No insult intended.

 

As I understand it, Regular to Premium is all the same additives from the refinery/distribution points. You will run into a difference in "Top Tier" vs non top tier stations though. The additives are added at the station as I have been told. So Shell, for example, is a top tier fuel supplier and puts additional cleaners into their fuels on site, so they could put more into the premium than the regular.

 

I work in the Petroleum equipment distribution industry and sell equipment to gas station owners and jobbers.
I have asked this question my self. it's all about marketing and oil companies trying to convince the public their fuel is better.
Here are some examples of oil company adds:
What is Techron®? Techron® is a patented fuel additive with powerful detergents to help keep vital engine parts clean. Techron's unique formulation helps fight deposits in an engine's fuel intake system and minimize contribution to harmful combustion chamber deposits.
Shell V-Power®NiTRO+ Premium Gasoline is an innovative premium formulation engineered with four levels of defense against gunk, corrosion, wear and friction to help keep your engine running like new*
They put it in all grades of gas.
STP gas treatment will accomplish the same thing.
None of them will give you better gas mileage by the way.

 

I agree. The "Premium cleans your engine better" claims are snake oil designed to lighten your wallet.

 

I get the ethanol free 91 from a local station, and just periodically run Lucas through it.

 

I wish I could get ethanol free in AZ...

 

In the case of the Shell ad, I'm thinking "premium" means "of exceptional quality or amount; also : higher-priced" rather than something they only put in their 91 octane gasoline.

 

Even the 91 has ethanol there?

 

https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=AZ

 

Most fuel around me has ethanol, too. There is only one station within 100 miles that I know of that has anything ethanol free. Luckily it's only a couple miles from the house.

 

https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=WY


The closest E0 place to me is about 50 miles, in a town I seldom drive to...

 

All our 87 octane has 10% ethanol in it. I'd like to run E0 but not enough to pay ~20% more for 91.

 

Thank you. Still just hitting the local, but now I know where to go to find it if I'm on the road. Good to see it's available in something besides 91 too!